8 Replies Latest reply on Dec 30, 2011 1:56 PM by rob day

    Colour management issues between CS4 and 5.5

    brighton_lance

      I am struggling with a colour management issue and would be very grateful if anyone could help me on this.

       

      I am creating a job in inDesign CS4 (6.0.6) and using my usual colour management settings. I set them up in Bridge in my CS4 and then use across InDesign, Photoshop and Illustrator. My settings are for jobs printed here in the UK, as follows:

       

      ---

      Working spaces

      RGB: Adobe RGB (1998)

      CMYK: Coated FOGRA39

       

      Colour management policies

      RGB: Convert to Working Space

      CMYK: Convert to Working Space

       

      All three 'Ask when opening' ticked

      ---

       

      I then have a client who takes the InDesign file from me, works on it and returns to me to complete fine-tuning and running the high-es pdf for print. She is running the latest InDesign CS5.5. I have instructed her to open InDesign and to set her Edit > Colour Settings... as follows without any files open so it is her default (am I doing this bit correctly, will it work across any files I send her?):

       

      ---

      Working spaces

      RGB: Adobe RGB (1998)

      CMYK: Coated FOGRA39

       

      Colour management policies

      RGB: Preserve Embedded Profiles

      CMYK: Preserve Embedded Profiles

       

      All three 'Ask when opening' ticked.

      ---

       

      We have done a couple of test runs and it is not working. She can open and work on the file ok and I can see text edits she has made without any problems.

       

      But when I analyse her returned file in detail I can see that her file is now showing View > Proof Setup > Document CMYK - US Web Coated SWOP (v2)

       

      which suggest something is happening at her end which is applying the US profile. I can change the proof setup to Working: Coated FOGRA39 but would prefer the US profile never reared its head!

       

      Apologies if I am making a very elementary mistake or mistakes here but I usually contain my colour management just on my own system so this is new territory for me. If anyone can help with what I should advise her to do at her end I would be very grateful (she is about 300 miles away in north of England so can't easily try out options on her MacBook Pro myself!)

       

      PS I have also noticed that certain elements on the page were changed during the .idml export to 80% transparency - enough to fool me for a while that the colours had changed on those too, when in fact I don't think that was anything to do with the profile issue, presumably just a bug between saving back from CS5.5 process?

        • 1. Re: Colour management issues between CS4 and 5.5
          John Hawkinson Level 5

          I am by no means an expert on color management, but I believe I have noticed IDML export fail to preserve document color management settings.

          • 2. Re: Colour management issues between CS4 and 5.5
            brighton_lance Level 1

            Really? I can't get the file to stay in a colour managed workflow?

            • 3. Re: Colour management issues between CS4 and 5.5
              Peter Spier Most Valuable Participant (Moderator)

              I believe that if your colleague is set to ask when opening, it makes no difference what color settings are used as the default (which is what you are setting in Bridge or ID with nothing open), AS LONG AS she does not choose to convert the working spaces when she opens your files. Defaults only apply to new work, unless your policy is set to convert or you convert yourself when prompted, so it sounds like something is not set the way you think it is.

               

              The fastest way I know to determine what profiles are actually assigned is to use the Edit > Convert to Profile command and see what ID says is the current profile, then CANCEL. If the profile is incorrect, you want to ASSIGN the correct profile, not convert, in order to preserve the color numbers in your native objects (like black type).

               

              I've never heard of .idml applying transparency, and I seriously doubt that it's possible -- .idml, after all is a passive thing, just a description of what is in the file, so it is not supposed to be making alterations to the content. Some users mistakenly apply transparency instead of tints, and sometimes users mistakenly set transparency with nothing selected, making it a new default for new objects. Far more likely that one of those things happened.

               

              I can't say I've paid particularly close attnetion to what happens with .idml and assigned profiles, but I believe John is incorrect and that I was surprised recently on the last few conversions I've done her for other users that the profiles actually were preserved after export and reopening on my system (I'm set to warn on all mismatches, and I use a default profile that is not in common usage in most places, so virtually any file I get from someone else prompts for a mismatch on opening).

              • 4. Re: Colour management issues between CS4 and 5.5
                John Hawkinson Level 5

                I can't say I've paid particularly close attnetion to what happens with .idml and assigned profiles, but I believe John is incorrect and that I was surprised recently on the last few conversions I've done her[e] for other users that the profiles actually were preserved after export and reopening on my system

                I didn't mean to suggest it was always a problem. But rather that I have experienced problems with color management and IDML export. I never had the chance to chase them down, so I'm not sure of the precise circumstances. Almost certainly not "all the time."

                • 5. Re: Colour management issues between CS4 and 5.5
                  brighton_lance Level 1

                  Many thanks to you both for the very helpful advice.

                   

                  I am going to ask her to change her settings as follows:

                  ----

                  Working spaces

                  RGB: Adobe RGB (1998)

                  CMYK: Coated FOGRA39

                   

                  Colour management policies

                  RGB: Preserve Embedded Profiles

                  CMYK: Preserve Embedded Profiles

                   

                  All three 'Ask when opening' UNCHECKED.

                  ---

                   

                  I'm hoping that was she will not enounter any dialogues asking her to make decisions and that it will then return to me with my original profiles intact. As she is purely making text corrections I think this is the simplest way. Woould you agree?

                   

                  Re: the 80% thing - having slept on it I have now recalled some odd behaviour at my end a couple of weeks ago. I can remember certain elements showing up as 80% transparency which I noticed after a while and manaully corrected to 100%. I realised that there was a rogue grouping of elements in my InDesign library which I had placed a few times (it contains a repeat illustration and a repeat author photo box) and amended them to be 100% before placing any more. But I suspect, as you pointed out Peter, that I may have created an 80% default while nothing was selected at some point and not realised. But what I would say is that these elements were most definetely changed back to 100% before I sent the test file to my colleague but the .idml file did return it as 80%! I think I will completely kill that library grouping and set it up afresh (checking of course that the transpaprency palette is showing 100% first).

                  • 6. Re: Colour management issues between CS4 and 5.5
                    Peter Spier Most Valuable Participant (Moderator)

                    The easy way to get your colleague to use the settings you want is probably to create a .csf (colore settings file) by pressing the save button in the Edit > Color Settings... dialog, then having her press Load in the same dialog and selecting your .csf that you've sent her.

                    • 7. Re: Colour management issues between CS4 and 5.5
                      brighton_lance Level 1

                      Yes, I have done that for her now, many thanks.

                      • 8. Re: Colour management issues between CS4 and 5.5
                        rob day Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                        Working spaces

                        RGB: Adobe RGB (1998)

                        CMYK: Coated FOGRA39

                         

                        Colour management policies

                        RGB: Preserve Embedded Profiles

                        CMYK: Preserve Embedded Profiles

                         

                        All three 'Ask when opening' UNCHECKED.

                         

                         

                        A document's Color Mangement Policies and profile assignments are saved with the doc at creation and don't change when you make a change  in Color Settings. If you turn on Ask When Opening before opening the document you'll get an option to change a doc's policy or make conversions.

                         

                        Asking your client to match your Color Settings without any documents open doesn't guarantee much because the Color Settings can be adjusted at anytime in ID or from Bridge with or without documents open.

                         

                        So, if your client matches the above settings and they never change there shouldn't be a problem because Ask when opening is unchecked. However, if she worked on your doc and then changed Color Settings to SWOP CMYK with  Ask... turned on for another project (the US Prepress Defaults), she would get this when reopening your doc:

                         

                        Screen shot 2011-12-30 at 3.49.33 PM.png

                        Where she has the option to change the policy and assign SWOP.

                         

                        Your convert policy is saved in your file regardless of what her Color Settings are—to prevent a new assignment you have to instruct her to always check Leave document as is in any Profile or Policy Mismatch dialog.