19 Replies Latest reply on Jan 12, 2012 12:25 PM by mikeengles

    Free hand selection tool using Camera Raw?

    bkoopers Level 1

      When using the Camera Raw “Spot Removal Tool” or the “Adjustment Brush”, the selection tool is circular (which makes it difficult many times to select the exact spot). I have to make several smaller circular selections to get the exact area that I want to work on. Is there a way to make a free-hand selection (like you can in Photoshop)?

       

      I am using ACR 6.6.

       

      Thanks to anyone who can help me out.

        • 1. Re: Free hand selection tool using Camera Raw?
          Jeff Schewe Level 5

          Nope...circular is it.

          • 2. Re: Free hand selection tool using Camera Raw?
            bkoopers Level 1

            I would think that many people would find a free hand selection tool a time saver. Where can I post a request to Adobe for adding such a feature to Camera Raw?

            • 3. Re: Free hand selection tool using Camera Raw?
              Level 4

              bkoopers wrote:

               

              …Where can I post a request to Adobe for adding such a feature to Camera Raw?

               

              This is precisely the right place. 

              • 4. Re: Free hand selection tool using Camera Raw?
                areohbee Level 6

                I think the new "feedback" site is the official channel for ACR feature requests now. Here's a similar request as yours: click me. This forum now being considered more "user-to-user" than "user-to-Adobe".

                • 5. Re: Free hand selection tool using Camera Raw?
                  Jeff Schewe Level 5

                  bkoopers wrote:

                   

                  I would think that many people would find a free hand selection tool a time saver.

                   

                  Just to be clear...this is the Camera Raw forum. The moment you click Open in ACR you have the fill functionality and feature set of Photoshop at your disposal. I think you need to make a much stronger use case for adding completely new functionality that can arguably be done better one step after ACR in Photoshop.

                  • 6. Re: Free hand selection tool using Camera Raw?
                    bkoopers Level 1

                    Jeff Schewe wrote:

                     

                    Just to be clear...this is the Camera Raw forum. The moment you click Open in ACR you have the fill functionality and feature set of Photoshop at your disposal. I think you need to make a much stronger use case for adding completely new functionality that can arguably be done better one step after ACR in Photoshop.

                     

                    I take thousands of concert photos shot in raw mode. Up until recently, I would process each photo through Camera Raw and then into Photoshop for additional adjustments and save another version of each photo in Photoshop. With the recent improvements to Camera Raw, I have discovered that I can do all my processing in Camera Raw and have no need to go into Photoshop for adjustments (for 99% of the photos). I now save all that storage space (by not having to store 2 versions of each photo) plus my process is streamlined. I have also further automated Camera Raw with an external keystroke macro program to quickly jump to the different sliders. If I was able to have the free hand tool in Camera Raw, I would replace multiple adjustments using small circle selections with one adjustment using a free hand selection saving much time.

                     

                    Is the above explanation a stronger case?

                    • 7. Re: Free hand selection tool using Camera Raw?
                      Jeff Schewe Level 5

                      bkoopers wrote:

                       

                      Is the above explanation a stronger case?

                       

                      No, not really...Camera Raw is not designed to be a 100% replacement for Photoshop. It will never have 100% of the usability/functionality of Photoshop. What Camera Raw needs to do are those things best done in the raw processing pipeline...not those things already easily done in Photoshop. You'll need to make a stronger case why the corrections you want should be done in raw vs in Photoshop. Simply asking for Photoshop functionality isn't enough of a use case. Sorry...

                      • 8. Re: Free hand selection tool using Camera Raw?
                        bkoopers Level 1

                        Why is cutting disk storage in half and speeding up the image adjustment process (by just improving the selection tool) not sufficient? I think most business managers will agree that saving resources by 50% and reducing process time is more than sufficient reason for this enhancement.

                        • 9. Re: Free hand selection tool using Camera Raw?
                          RASouthworth Level 3

                          You may not be happy with ACR's limitations, but you should at least have some appreciation as to the (somewhat fuzzy) line separating ACR functionality from Photoshop.  ACR is a non-destructive editor, all of the editing commands are contained within a text list (the .xmp file if you elect separate sidecar files).  Generally global commands, and more recently contained local commands (e.g. brushes) can be described with a reasonable number of list parameters.  However an arbitrary selection boundary could require a very large number of xy coordinates, and probably would not easily fit into a list format.  One can already "overload" ACR and cause slow updates, even in a fast system.

                           

                          In general, specific pixel manipulations don't fit into the ACR scheme, better left for Photoshop IMO.

                           

                          Richard Southworth

                          • 10. Re: Free hand selection tool using Camera Raw?
                            bkoopers Level 1

                            If "an arbitrary selection boundary could require a very large number of xy coordinates and probably would not easily fit into a list format can "overload" ACR and cause slow updates, even in a fast system", then how about having a "rectangle" as an alternate selection shape which in some cases would be better suited than a circular selection shape?

                            • 11. Re: Free hand selection tool using Camera Raw?
                              RASouthworth Level 3

                              Actually you can do a fairly arbitrary selection with the brush tool, as long as you stick to its list of operations, as in the attached example.  I guess I'm not sure exactly what function you want/need.

                               

                              Richard Southworth

                              brush.jpg

                              • 12. Re: Free hand selection tool using Camera Raw?
                                bkoopers Level 1

                                I am mainly talking about the “Spot Removal Tool”. Here is an example of how many times I need to repeat the tool selection with many circles until I get the entire area I want to clone out of the image. It would be easier if I could hide the previous circles when I add a new circle.

                                 

                                Even though this is tedious, it is still preferable that going into Photoshop and having to maintain  two files for one image. It would be great if I could select the item to be removed easier but if that is not going to happen, then I will continue doing it this way.

                                 

                                Camera Raw spot removal example.jpg

                                • 13. Re: Free hand selection tool using Camera Raw?
                                  areohbee Level 6

                                  Consider casting your vote here: http://feedback.photoshop.com/photoshop_family/topics/lightroom_more_photoshop_like_clone_ healing_brushes_in_lightroom

                                   

                                  PS - There is a trick to overlapping dust-spot corrections more tightly. Create them away from each other, then move them in close where you want them.

                                  • 14. Re: Free hand selection tool using Camera Raw?
                                    Jeff Schewe Level 5

                                    bkoopers wrote:

                                     

                                    I am mainly talking about the “Spot Removal Tool”.

                                     

                                    This is a prime example of trying to force fit a tool to do something it wasn't designed to do. The Spot Removal tool is designed to do just that...remove sensor spots on digital captures. It was not designed to be a full fledged retouching tool. And while users will always use tools for things they weren't designed for, adding more retouching into ACR so you can eliminate creating a seperate retouched image in Photoshop isn't a good use case.

                                    • 15. Re: Free hand selection tool using Camera Raw?
                                      bkoopers Level 1

                                      Jeff Schewe wrote:

                                       

                                       

                                      This is a prime example of trying to force fit a tool to do something it wasn't designed to do. The Spot Removal tool is designed to do just that...remove sensor spots on digital captures. It was not designed to be a full fledged retouching tool. And while users will always use tools for things they weren't designed for, adding more retouching into ACR so you can eliminate creating a seperate retouched image in Photoshop isn't a good use case.

                                       

                                      I understand your point but I disagree for the reasons previously stated.

                                       

                                      There are others that agree with me at the above Photoshop feedback page and I added my comments there too.

                                      • 16. Re: Free hand selection tool using Camera Raw?
                                        Noel Carboni Level 7

                                        I respect your point of view, however...

                                         

                                        I'd like to just say one thing:  If Camera Raw is tasked with becoming an end-all image editor, is it conceivable that it could end up NOT being the best raw converter?  I'm thinking asking for more and more editing features dilutes the focus of the developers on maximum image quality. 

                                         

                                        And having more features is not all gravy...  Surely adding steps to the process to fix spots, etc. must slow it down some.

                                         

                                        -Noel

                                        • 17. Re: Free hand selection tool using Camera Raw?
                                          JimHess Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                          Exactly!  ACR is a plug in for Photoshop to enable the processing of raw image data.  All of the free hand selecting and other tasks are more suited for pixel editing, and that's what Photoshop is for.

                                          • 18. Re: Free hand selection tool using Camera Raw?
                                            bkoopers Level 1

                                            I use Camera Raw to edit thousands of photos. Each arw raw file is about 15 mb in size. The associated xmp companion that contains the modification directions is a tiny 7 kb in size. Saving that image in Photoshop psd format would take at least another 41 mb per file. If I had to save every file in Photoshop psd format, it would take 4 times the storage space. That is too high a penalty to pay. Adobe should create another file saving option in Photoshop where it only saves the modification instructions in a file so all you need to retain is your original (large) (untouched) raw file and a tiny companion instructions file (just like Camera Raw does).

                                            • 19. Re: Free hand selection tool using Camera Raw?
                                              mikeengles Level 1

                                              Hello

                                               

                                              I pretty well second bkoopers in all he has said.

                                              I would like the complete set of selection tools in Camera Raw as well as a system of layers for the adjustment tool.I could then try different adjustments and use the one I like

                                              I tend to use Raw and Bridge as I like to see my images corrected as a slide show on a large monitor.

                                              The Bridge preview can show all these corrections as the preview is rebuilt after editing in Camera Raw, with the exception of sharpening.

                                              I would also like a perspective crop in Raw. The vertical and horizontal skewing is pretty basic.

                                               

                                              Mike Engles