Document Fonts not displaying in PDF

[Daniel Flavin]

Making the leap into CS5.5 I thought it would be great to take advantage of the Document Fonts folder usage.

(I'd love to have the free time (ok, the ambition) to purge the system fonts folder.)

Paths to several fonts are in the document folder across a local network, exported for print, press quality, fonts confirmed embedded (subset) in Acrobat.

Acrobat is displaying all the type in Minion Pro, with the body, head, etc. fonts embedded.

Is this a doc fonts bug or an Acrobat preference setting?

[Peter Spier]

The document fonts feature ONLY does one thing, install the fonts in the document fonts folder for use while editing the current document. It has nothing to do with what gets displayed by Acrobat once the PDF is exported.

You checkd the document properties in Acrobat and confirmed that Mrs Eaves is embedded? If so, this is either that you have use local fonts selected in the Acrobat prefs (which I thought would still use embedded fonts if the font was missing onthe system, but I could be wrong), or it's an Acrobat bug of some sort, I would say.

[John Hawkinson]

Well, or it's an InDesign bug that for some reason it is not embedding the font in the PDF that it should be.

Perhaps related to a font that is marked as not licensed for embedding?

I would try another PDF viewer, and perhaps go try to dig into the details, both in Document Properties in Acrobat, and also the various preflights that can do analysis of this stuff.

[Peter Spier]

John Hawkinson wrote:

Well, or it's an InDesign bug that for some reason it is not embedding the font in the PDF that it should be.

Perhaps related to a font that is marked as not licensed for embedding?

I would try another PDF viewer, and perhaps go try to dig into the details, both in Document Properties in Acrobat, and also the various preflights that can do analysis of this stuff.

If the font is marked as restricted, it's not a bug if ID honors the restriction, and if ID is not embedding it, but Acrobat is reporting it as embedded in the fonts list under document properties, I'd say that's an Acrobat bug.

There WAS a font packaging bug on Mac, but Daniel is on Windows, and as far as I know nothing similar has been reported up to now for embedding. I stand by my firts response -- if the font shows as embedded in the list in Acrobat, the problem is in Acrobat, not ID, and there is unlikely to be any connection to the Document Fonts feature.

If the font is embeddable and fails to embed, that's a different animal.

[Daniel Flavin]

The font is listed as embedded in the pdf.

Acrobat Reader Screen shot below exhibits the same incorrect display as AA Pro. I have toggled on to off Acrobat Preference Use Local Fonts and restarted both 9.4.2 Pro and Reader 8.3 without a change.

Additional info, The window titled melangeofcookery was the file supplied by the creator. (In readers spreads). I'll assume the fonts were local to the OS. Without digging into the doc history, I know it was a Mac OSX. The fonts display correctly.

The window titled Melange of Cookery was created with CS4 with the fonts loaded into the Program fonts folder. (Note from my previous post, I am trying to avoid excessive usage of the system fonts folder.) PDF exported with the fonts in that location display correctly.

The document usage of Heads Span Columns dictated my first venture into CS5.5 and the documents fonts folder usage.

The 1-9 Window used doc fonts folder, fonts embedded and displaying incorrectly from CS5.5. Can someone confirm that it displays incorrect? Hosted at Acrobat.com

https://acrobat.com/#d=xg3*QL0*c1S-XUHo0a1-HQ

[Peter Spier]

I see what you see.

[Peter Spier]

Showing Myriad Pro in Illustrator as well.

[Daniel Flavin]

Have you (anybody) used the Document Fonts feature succesfully with pdf export?

As I have described my usage of such, have I misunderstood it's ability/functionality?

I have started a thread in the Acrobat Windows forum, but the insight here is valued. (Familair ground)

[John Hawkinson]

If the font is marked as restricted, it's not a bug if ID honors the restriction, and if ID is not embedding it, but Acrobat is reporting it as embedded in the fonts list under document properties, I'd say that's an Acrobat bug.

Well, it's a bug if ID doesn't warn you when it honors the restriction.

Anyhow, Acrobat is reporting it as an embedded font because it is embedded on the first few pages, not the pages Dan showed us. Check out the Page description: Text objects preflight check:

So, IMO, clearly an ID bug.

[Peter Spier]

John Hawkinson wrote:

If the font is marked as restricted, it's not a bug if ID honors the restriction, and if ID is not embedding it, but Acrobat is reporting it as embedded in the fonts list under document properties, I'd say that's an Acrobat bug.

Well, it's a bug if ID doesn't warn you when it honors the restriction.

I think ID has that nifty warning that you may have told it never to show again about only embedding fonts with correct permissions so they don't have to show it for every one that isn't embedded.

But it IS strange that the font is embedded on page 1 but not further on.

Daniel,

Was page 1 exported at the same time, or is it an earlier page?

[John Hawkinson]

I think ID has that nifty warning that you may have told it never to show again about only embedding fonts with correct permissions so they don't have to show it for every one that isn't embedded.

Hmm. Somewhere I have a carefully prepared essay on why those Do Not Show Again boxes are very bad user interface design...

[Peter Spier]

John Hawkinson wrote:

I think ID has that nifty warning that you may have told it never to show again about only embedding fonts with correct permissions so they don't have to show it for every one that isn't embedded.

Hmm. Somewhere I have a carefully prepared essay on why those Do Not Show Again boxes are very bad user interface design...

I'd rather have that warning than get told some of the stuff over and over, but then again I don't actually turn those generic ones off, either, I just click throught them by habit.

[Peter Spier]

Hmmmmm,

Thinking, and this might be a "recovered memory," but perhaps the problem with T1 fonts and DIF had to do with not embedding any occurrence after page 1.

Could you try exporting just a range (that doesn't include Page 1), and check to see whether the font is embedded on the first page of the smaller PDF?

[Daniel Flavin]

Acrobat's Preflight - I ran the most obvious choice - Fonts Not Embedded profile and Acobat displays no errors.

I would not conclude the embedding early in the file - the cover uses a AI link without the fonts, page 2 is blank, and the first instance of the font is page 3, clearly incorrectly displayed and built as Myriad Pro..

[John Hawkinson]

Acrobat's Preflight - I ran the most obvious choice - Fonts Not Embedded profile and Acobat displays no errors.

I would not conclude the embedding early in the file - the cover uses a AI link without the fonts, page 2 is blank, and the first instance of the font is page 3, clearly incorrectly displayed and built as Myriad Pro..

Err, the check I used is in the "single checks" listing, not a preflight profile. You have to click this button to see them:

But anyhow, your results make perfect sense. The font is embedded and used on page 1. On all other pages, the text is set in Myriad Pro. PDF is just fine from Acrobat's perspective. It's just that it has Minion in it. But that's not an issue of embedding or not embedding from Acrobat's perspective. It's displaying the font that the PDF asks for.

[Peter Spier]

Daniel Flavin wrote:

the cover uses a AI link without the fonts,

Actually, I was able to see the fonts as correctly embedded on the cover -- probably embedded in AI.

[Peter Spier]

I THINK I may know what the problem is here. The font is T1, not OpenType, I think (myfonts.com doesn't show an Opentype version available) and Document Installed Fonts doesn't work properly with T1 fonts.

[BobLevine]

Why should that matter if the right font was used in the InDesign document?

(I’m replying by email so I hope I haven’t missed anything)

Bob

[Peter Spier]

Bob, you have to start reviewing the threads.

The problem here is that the font supposedly is installed and in use in ID (not showing as missing) and after Export the PDF properies show it as an embedded subset, but the actual font in the PDF, when you use the touch-up tool to confirm, is Myriad Pro, not the subset Mr Eaves.

I bet you have a better memory than I, though, about exactly what the problem is with DIF and T1 fonts.

[Daniel Flavin]

The font looks and barks like an Open Type font.

It's properties list as OpenType Font File, although my limited knowledge of Type 1, True Type and Open Type will be obvious upon much more conversation of such.

I have moved the fonts to the OS Fonts folder and exported succesfully.

All the review and help is appreciated, I'm moving on and listing this as a bug. One of my most anticipated useful features for this release has been shot down.

Akin to the humor of a Karaoke guy yelling Is This Thing On - Somebody needs to get this fixed. 

[Peter Spier]

Daniel Flavin wrote:

The font looks and barks like an Open Type font.

It's properties list as OpenType Font File, although my limited knowledge of Type 1, True Type and Open Type will be obvious upon much more conversation of such.

Yeah, I found som other palces that offer it in OT, so my theory just got shot down.

You should file a bug on this. The whole feature was intended to help printers.

[John Hawkinson]

All the review and help is appreciated, I'm moving on and listing this as a bug. One of my most anticipated useful features for this release has been shot down.

Akin to the humor of a Karaoke guy yelling Is This Thing On - Somebody needs to get this fixed. 

Well, we better report it so it can get fixed in CS6!

Do we understand the steps to reproduce?

[John Hawkinson]

OK, so I tried to reproduce with a random OTF font (VisigothStd.otf), which I installed on my machine, produced an .ai file with it subset, removed it from my machine, placed on p.1, used the font on p.3, exported to PDF. PDF is fine.

Can you send me a packaged copy of the doc, Dan?

[John Hawkinson]

I wonder if this is PC-specific. I got Dan's file, it works fine for me to export in CS5.5.

I will try it on a Windows machine late tonight.

[John Hawkinson]

I wonder if this is PC-specific. I got Dan's file, it works fine for me to export in CS5.5.

I will try it on a Windows machine late tonight.

It works fine for me under Windows XP, too! No Minion in the output PDF at all. Used the Press Quality preset [well, I tried a bunch].  Maybe it's Windows 7 specific, but, I suspect it is more complicated

Bummer! I hate not being able to reproduce the problem.