25 Replies Latest reply on Jan 16, 2012 9:18 AM by luke_westbrook

    Master Page Considerations for High Res Printing in B+W

    luke_westbrook Level 1

      Hi,
      Wonder if you guys can help me with some more question(s) I have.


      I have a book which is going to be printed in Grayscale B+W, where the text font is 'Garamond' and contains 300dpi grayscale images throughout the book.  I'm looking to ensure that the PDF provided to the printers is sufficient for it to be printed in high resolution text and the photos (with embedded text/speech bubbles) come out as clear as is possible.

       

      A) Can you tell me which settings and where I need to make in my Indesign Master Page template file in order that it contains the correct settings for high quality printing ?
      (I read here: http://www.tek-tips.com/viewthread.cfm?qid=1255684 that the base resolution for press quality pdf in Distiller is 2400 dpi).
      - What should my 'Advanced/Transparency Flattener' be ?
      - What should be my 'Transparency Blend Space' be ?
      - Anything else I need to set ?

       

      B) Wrt my images, should I import into my indesign document them as the original TIFF files or alternativey the original .psd files containing the individual text and shape layers ? 
      Secondly, should I embed the images or preserve a link to them instead ?

      Some background;
      - My images are saved as TIFF files and in Grayscale mode.
      - Most of my images contain speech bubbles created in Photoshop and then saved without layers as TIFF files.
      - The speech bubbles contain text with font size varying from 7point to 14 point in the Myriad Pro font.
      - The image size is either 8.7x8.7 or 14.7x14.7  and are at a 300dpi resolution.

       

      I really hope you can help me out here as Im totally new to InDesign/publishing and am now beginning to worry that I haven't taken into account these basic considerations.
      Best Regards
      L

        • 1. Re: Master Page Considerations for High Res Printing in B+W
          Peter Spier Most Valuable Participant (Moderator)

          If you are going to add the text in Photoshop and expect it to print sharp you have two choices, in my opinon. Work in Bitmap mode at 1200 ppi or higher (which won't work for grayscale), or work in Grayscale mode (for this project) at wahtever resolution is required to give you 300 ppi at the output scale, leave the text layers live, and save the grayscale images Photshop PDF so the text is not rasterized.

          • 2. Re: Master Page Considerations for High Res Printing in B+W
            daevaux Level 1

            Hi Luke,

            - You don't have to worry about Transparency Flatener unless you're using transparency  effects (drop shadows, overlays, etc.) . Are you?

            - You should not embed the images into Indesign. You should link the files. When you make any changes to the art you can easily update the indesign file in the links menu, and the file size of the indesign file will remain more manageable.

            - Photoshop is not the best choice to set type in. It would have been better to set it in Illustrator if you could have, but if you dont have that option, or if it's too late, Peter's recomendation of saving it as a photoshop PDF is the way I would go.

            1 person found this helpful
            • 3. Re: Master Page Considerations for High Res Printing in B+W
              Grant H Level 4

              good print quality is like baking a good cake... first you need the right quality ingredients, then the preparation needs to be spot on and lastly baked correctly.

               

              If the images in the document are not correct (effective ppi too low etc... color profiles and so on), if certain layers are affected by transparency incorrectly... etc, even if you document is set up correctly and you set up the transparency flattening correctly it still may flop... so... start reading bud...

               

              Then, you can convert colors with the exported PDF in Acrobat.. too..

               

              G

              • 4. Re: Master Page Considerations for High Res Printing in B+W
                luke_westbrook Level 1

                Hi guys, many thanks for your responses...

                 

                Image Type: So I should save the images as a photoshop PDF with the layers preserved (this site http://indesignsecrets.com/tiff-vs-psd-vs-eps-vs-pdf-vs.php says something similar too).  Great, that sounds like the way to go.  Cheers Peter/Daevaux.

                 

                - No, Im not using any transparency effects so great news.

                - Great, didn't like the idea of embedding images anyway, besides, my text/images were initially to be imported into the document using data merge, so linking is perfect. Thanks Daevaux.

                -  I do have the option of going the Illustrator route still but I have too many photoshop related tasks to do (converting to Grayscale, cropping, speech bubbles), and I don't think speech bubbles is available in Illustrator.

                 

                I also did some digging around and discovered that its possible for me to 'rasterize' the text layer, so it effectively becomes an image.  But then, I think the 'photoshop pdf' route you guys suggest is best anyway.

                 

                Many thanks

                L

                • 5. Re: Master Page Considerations for High Res Printing in B+W
                  Grant H Level 4

                  You don't have to worry about Transparency Flatener unless you're using transparency  effects

                  not altogether true... a psd with a transparent bg on a layer above a vector object...?

                   

                  G

                  • 6. Re: Master Page Considerations for High Res Printing in B+W
                    luke_westbrook Level 1

                    Hi Grant, thanks for the response.

                     

                    My images have the same size as they are in the book, and contain 300dpi  eg. My image which fits the graphic frame 8.7cm x 8.7cm has a width/height of 8.7cm and a width/height pixel count of 1028 x 1028.

                    Not sure what effective ppi is but if Im guessing correctly, it means the ratio at which it prints.  In this case, my image is literally 1:1 size wise when printed.

                    My colour profile (mode) is set to 'Grayscale'.

                     

                    Don't worry, I have started reading and am now panicking by what Ive read in this.

                    http://www.adobe.com/products/postscript/pdfs/highresolution.pdf

                     

                    Best Rgds

                    L

                    • 7. Re: Master Page Considerations for High Res Printing in B+W
                      Peter Spier Most Valuable Participant (Moderator)

                      luke_westbrook wrote:

                       

                      I also did some digging around and discovered that its possible for me to 'rasterize' the text layer, so it effectively becomes an image.  But then, I think the 'photoshop pdf' route you guys suggest is best anyway.

                       

                      The whole point is to NOT rasterize the text.

                       

                      As a general principle, if your layout includes transparency in any of its myriad forms, you'll want to try to keep your text above the transparency in the stacking order to minimize the possibility of flattening artifacts like rasterized or outlined type.

                      • 8. Re: Master Page Considerations for High Res Printing in B+W
                        Peter Spier Most Valuable Participant (Moderator)

                        luke_westbrook wrote:

                        Don't worry, I have started reading and am now panicking by what Ive read in this.

                        http://www.adobe.com/products/postscript/pdfs/highresolution.pdf

                        A lot has changed since 1998 when that document was created. ID didn't even exist at that point. I would stop looking at that one, myself, and simply worry more about getting the images right to begin with. ID export to PDF does not involve distiller or printer drivers.

                        • 9. Re: Master Page Considerations for High Res Printing in B+W
                          luke_westbrook Level 1

                          Oh right...   not rasterizing is the key

                          Indeed, my text layers are always on top of its respective shape (speech bubble) layer.  Also, none of the shapes or text layers overlap.  So I should be good ?

                           

                          Ok, I assumed it was a recent document, thanks for comforting me. I'll completely ignore that then

                          Thanks buddy

                          • 10. Re: Master Page Considerations for High Res Printing in B+W
                            Peter Spier Most Valuable Participant (Moderator)

                            A further word on grayscale. ID does not support grayscale profiles in the way that it does CMYK or RGB, so your choice of a grayscale working space in Photoshop is important, and not always clearcut. When you place a grayscale image, the gray values are transferred to the K channel of the CMYK working space (so they ooutput on the K plate along wit everthing else using black ink), so the dot gain may make your images print lighter or darker than you expect. If your CMYK working space matches the press conditions, you should get a good idea of what to expect by turning on Overprint Preview.

                             

                            What grayscale space are you currently using in Photoshop?

                            • 11. Re: Master Page Considerations for High Res Printing in B+W
                              Grant H Level 4

                              Not sure what effective ppi is but if Im guessing correctly, it means the ratio at which it prints.

                              no... if you have an image that is 1 inch x 1 inch that is 300 ppi and you resize the image in ID to 2 x 2 inches the effective ppi is halved ie 150 ppi.

                               

                               

                              G

                              • 12. Re: Master Page Considerations for High Res Printing in B+W
                                luke_westbrook Level 1

                                I'm not sure what grayscale space Im using actually, the default one I guess.  Let me check this once I get home tonight.

                                 

                                I guess I need to finalise the printers I'll be using to help determine which Grayscale space I should be using.

                                Rgds

                                L

                                • 13. Re: Master Page Considerations for High Res Printing in B+W
                                  luke_westbrook Level 1

                                  Sorry, thats what I meant.  My image print size is exactly the same as the image size, therefore preserving the 300ppi.

                                  RgdsL

                                  • 14. Re: Master Page Considerations for High Res Printing in B+W
                                    Grant H Level 4

                                    Also, none of the shapes or text layers overlap.  So I should be good ?

                                    as a general rule correct: try have text layers above other layers, as always there are exeptions or design attributes that will beg exception.

                                     

                                    G...

                                    1 person found this helpful
                                    • 15. Re: Master Page Considerations for High Res Printing in B+W
                                      rob day Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                      - What should be my 'Transparency Blend Space' be ?

                                       

                                      If the job is printing black only, the blend space has to be CMYK. If it's RGB, any transparent object on a page will convert the page's graycales to 4-color CMYK, whether transparent & non transparent objects overlap or not.

                                      • 16. Re: Master Page Considerations for High Res Printing in B+W
                                        luke_westbrook Level 1

                                        Hi,

                                        Sorry for the late reply.

                                         

                                        Thanks so far guys, will save my images as Photoshop PSD files and have made the settings 'Transparency Blend Space' set to ‘Document CMYK’ and the 'Transparency Flattener Presets' to ‘High Res’.

                                         

                                         

                                        Regarding my images;

                                        Below is a screenshot of a sample image with the layers shown and the image info.

                                         

                                        Just checked my Grayscale setting and its at 'Dot Gain 20%'.  Also, its at '8bits/Channel'.

                                        Is this ok or should I go for a higher bit/channel ?

                                         

                                        Also, reading somewhere, 'MyriadPro' is only on Acrobat Reader 7 onwards, but I think the printer Im going with only suggests saving PDF's in version Acrobat 5 (PDF 1.4).

                                        Will this be a problem - should I look at alternative fonts ?

                                         

                                        Thanks so much for your help so far, and I hope you forgive my beginners questions

                                        L

                                         

                                        ImageCapture_13Jan12.JPG

                                        • 17. Re: Master Page Considerations for High Res Printing in B+W
                                          Peter Spier Most Valuable Participant (Moderator)

                                          What happened to not rasterizing the text? You need to save as Photoshop PDF, NOT .psd to do that (and if yu change the xrension to .pdp from .pdf, the files will open for editing in Photoshop instead of Acrobat).

                                           

                                          Dot Gain 20% is suitable for coated papers or uncoated stock with a high ink holdout (might even be a bit high for some presses), but is too low for newsprint or other pulpy, porous stock. Ask the printer. He knows beeter than anyone what will be appropriate.

                                           

                                          Myriad Pro is fine. Where are you finding all these scary documents?  You are, however, pushing your luck trying to reverse 6 pt type. It will depend on the paper, but my guess would be that anything smaller than 10pts is going to be iffy, and should be set bold to maximize the weight of any hairlines. It looks OK on screen, but when ink hit the paper it spreads (that's dot gain) and all the very narrow spaces in reversed type are going to tend to fill in.

                                          • 18. Re: Master Page Considerations for High Res Printing in B+W
                                            luke_westbrook Level 1

                                            Hi Peter,

                                            I didn't rasterize the text, all I done was save the file as a photoshop pdf and renamed the extension to .pdp as was suggested.

                                             

                                            I'll ask the printer what Dot Gain is suitable but it should be easy to change this at anytime I guess.

                                             

                                            The Myriad Pro bit was on wikipedia (I know, silly of me to look there but google directed me there).

                                            http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Myriad_(typeface)

                                             

                                            I won't be opting for 6pt, but will be going for 7pt Regular on some text.  Not sure what reversed type is, but is it white text ?

                                             

                                            Thanks

                                            L

                                            • 19. Re: Master Page Considerations for High Res Printing in B+W
                                              Peter Spier Most Valuable Participant (Moderator)

                                              Reverse type is

                                              luke_westbrook wrote:

                                               

                                              I didn't rasterize the text, all I done was save the file as a photoshop pdf and renamed the extension to .pdp as was suggested.

                                               

                                              So this: "Thanks so far guys, will save my images as Photoshop PSD files..." was a typo I guess. You had me worried.

                                               

                                              Yes, reverse type is type that is knocked out of the background, so in your case it will be white (usually is).

                                               

                                              If the printer doesn't have a recommendation for a graysclae profile, perhaps he has a CMYK profile that he uses. We can make a custom Grayscale profile from that by using the Black ink channel for the gray (in fact that wouldn't be a bad thing to do, at all, You would then get a very accurate on screen "soft proof" of what to expect in ID by setting the working space to the recommended CMYK from the printer and you'd get a very accurate soft proof while making adjustments in Photoshop, too.

                                              • 20. Re: Master Page Considerations for High Res Printing in B+W
                                                luke_westbrook Level 1

                                                Oops, sorry, indeed it was a typo.

                                                 

                                                Yep, I'll have some white text with no background shape, just set against part of the image. 

                                                 

                                                I better find out from the printer these profiles then.

                                                 

                                                 

                                                Thanks so much guys.  You've saved me lot of grief down the line.

                                                rgds

                                                L

                                                • 21. Re: Master Page Considerations for High Res Printing in B+W
                                                  rob day Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                                  Just checked my Grayscale setting and its at 'Dot Gain 20%'.  Also, its at '8bits/Channel'.

                                                  Is this ok or should I go for a higher bit/channel ?

                                                   

                                                  If you make your color corrections with adjustment layers then there's no advantage to 16 bit mode.

                                                   

                                                   

                                                  I'll ask the printer what Dot Gain is suitable but it should be easy to change this at anytime I guess.

                                                   

                                                   

                                                   

                                                  20% Dot Gain is one of those lowest common denominator presets like sRGB. Current CMYK profiles are no longer based on dot gain curves—the profile you get if you choose Emulate Photoshop 4 uses dot gain curves.

                                                   

                                                  You can choose a modern profile like US Sheetfed Coated as your grayscale profile which would likely return a more accurate softproof than 20% Dot Gain.

                                                   

                                                  In Photoshop Color Settings>Gray>Load Gray>load USSheetfedCoated.icc. In ID Edit>Assign Profiles...>set your CMYK profile to US Sheetfed Coated V2

                                                  • 22. Re: Master Page Considerations for High Res Printing in B+W
                                                    luke_westbrook Level 1

                                                    Hi Rob, Thanks for your input... 

                                                     

                                                    Im in CS5 and according to the Adobe website, I already have these ICC profiles stored.   But then I still only get the 'Dot Gain* and Gray Gamma*' options int he dropdown for the Gray Working Space.

                                                    In Indesign, Ive now set my global CMYK profile to the one suggested.

                                                    Thanks.

                                                    L

                                                    • 23. Re: Master Page Considerations for High Res Printing in B+W
                                                      Peter Spier Most Valuable Participant (Moderator)

                                                      To load the black channel as the gray profile in Photoshop Edit > Color Settings... and in the dilaog select Load Gray from the grayscale profile dropdown:

                                                       

                                                      LoadGray.png

                                                      Then pick the profile from the list of installed profiles in the list that will open (or navigate to where you have a custom profile stored if it isn't in the list).

                                                      • 24. Re: Master Page Considerations for High Res Printing in B+W
                                                        rob day Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                                        To get the Load Gray... dialog Peter is showing in his capture, you have to toggle the Fewer Options/More Options button to More Options.

                                                        • 25. Re: Master Page Considerations for High Res Printing in B+W
                                                          luke_westbrook Level 1

                                                          Apologies, I was pressing the 'Load' button on the right. 

                                                          Ok, got it, thanks again