14 Replies Latest reply on Jan 25, 2012 7:04 AM by the_wine_snob

    Decreasing Quality after Export to Encore

    TellmanProduction

      Hello friends> Before I pose my question, I want to thank you all. The last 75 days have been an intense period of growth for me, going from ZERO filming and Adobe Premeire / Encore (CS5.5) experience, to where I am now. I'm probably still a beginner, but I've filmed a great instrutional DVD with a solid menu and chapters, and edited it very well. I'm very pleased with the product I have now.

       

      Anyway, I have YOU all to thank. Guys like Harm Millaard and Bill Hunt- I've read so many of your posts as I learned how to use this amazing software.

       

      Until now, I've managed to figure out everything on my own... but now, I come to you with a desparate problem that I cannot solve on my own.


      Essentially, the problem is this: The quality of the video on the DVD is much poorer than the quality of the video in Adobe Premeire.

       

      There's an obvious reason for this: I filmed in 1440x1080, and the NTSC format in Encore is of course 720x480. That much makes sense.

       

      So the REAL problem I have is this:

       

      I know my project is NOT HiDef. I don't expect that. But, the quality is lower than it should be. My eyes, for example, are pixelated and have no "sparkle", even when the DVD player window is at the 720x480 size.

       

      I compare this to any given production DVD (non HiDef), like Lord of the Rings. I can maximize the window on a 1080p monitor, and even though it too is 720x480, it STILL looks good. It's not pixelated. When I expand mine to 1080p, it's very pixelated.

       

      This is what I need help with...

       

      I can give you the specifics of the production method and provide screenshots if it would help, but as you know, the dynamic linkfrom Premeire to Encore is pretty simple and doesn't give you a lot of room for error- it's pretty tight. In short, here are some of the things I've tried:

       

      > I've tried rendering the production into a 720x480 sequence instead of a 1080p sequence. The final product from Encore is the same quality.

       

      > I bought and used a pretty darn good camera.

       

      > I bought some really nice lights to use, and really studied 3 point lighting, so I don't think the lighting is the problem. When I look a the raw 1080p files on my computer, they are breathtakingly clear.

       

      Okay friends.... I hope you can help me!

       

      -V.R.

        • 2. Re: Decreasing Quality after Export to Encore
          John T Smith Adobe Community Professional & MVP

          Note - my workflow is MY personal preference

           

          I edit AVCHD from a Canon Vixia and export to Widescreen DV AVI out of Premiere Pro CS5

           

          I then author in Encore, and have Encore use automatic encoding when creating the DVD so the encoding is the "best" match of project and disc size (actually, an ISO and then Imgburn to write to disc)

           

          The DVD I produce is MUCH better than when I used to have an SD only workflow with my previous tape camera

           

          I think you need to post more information (including screen shots of your settings) for anyone to help

          • 3. Re: Decreasing Quality after Export to Encore
            Ann Bens Adobe Community Professional & MVP

            Don't compare Hollywood DVD's with homemade DVD's. You could not afford their encoders .

            The best way is to edit in HD then export to mpeg2-dvd in Premiere. (exporting to dv-avi is an unnecessary step in compression, its not lossless)

            Choose one of the presets for dvd. They do a good job.

            Make sure you have Use Max Render Quality in the Export Settings on.

            Do not use Match sequence settings, use Preview Files or Frame Blending.

            Import into Encore, make menu and burn (or make image and burn with 3rd party software)

            When watching a DVD on a HD tv you need a dvd player with upscaler or a BD player.

            • 4. Re: Decreasing Quality after Export to Encore
              TellmanProduction Level 1

              Hello guys!

               

              Thank you all so much. The video that showed how to export the footage with the proper setting was very educational.


              The problem is, I'm still at square one. I've tried two things, with no increase in quality.

               

              Here are the details: My originals were shot at 1440x1080, at a framerate of 60i.

               

              I didn't realize 60i was only for high motion, otherwise I would have at least done 60p....

               

              Anyway, I followed the man's instructions for exporting 1080 60i footage, and did the following:

               

              MPEG2-DVD

              Preset: NTSC Widescreen High Quality

              Field Order = Upper

              VBR - 2 Pass

              Use Maximum Render Quality

              Bitrate: Min-2.8mbs, target-7mbs, max-8mbs

              GOP Settings: M frames=3, N frames=15

               

              On an old TV, the DVD doesn't look terrible. And when the window on my computer is at 720x480, it looks "okay". But when I "maximize" the window, it looks very bad. The eyes and face are completely pixelated. I understand I'm more than doubling the size of the video when I maximize on a 1080p monitor, but EVERY other DVD I have ever boght- even janky, no-name 4x4 DVDs filmed with huge shoulder cameras from the 90s, look pretty darn good when "maximized".

               

              Perhaps I'm expecting too much, but I filmed with very high quality, I have a very nice computer, and Adobe has given me the best software. I believe I'm truly in a position to deliver a "market ready" product.

               

              The DVD is only 30 minutes long, so "room" is not a problem. I'm already selling about $400 worth of these DVDs per day, and am about to place a big order with a fulfillment center for $12,000 worth.

               

              Before I do that, I MUST improve the quality... I know a lot of my customers are watching this on their computers, and not on their DVD players with standard def TVs.

               

              Here's a screen shot of the DVD at 720x480 size: http://screencast.com/t/7a91ujCLHkT

               

              Here's the garbage I'm getting when maximized: http://screencast.com/t/XjqyD3cf04UV

               

              I really hope one of you gurus can help me.


              Thank you SO MUCH.

               

              V.R.

              • 5. Re: Decreasing Quality after Export to Encore
                TellmanProduction Level 1

                Also- here is what it looks like on the "output" tab of the export screen.

                 

                It looks almost perfect there!! Why is the quality dropping so severely after this? Any ideas?

                 

                http://screencast.com/t/LaalcAmKXPf

                 

                You can also see my settings there...

                 

                Thank you again!

                • 6. Re: Decreasing Quality after Export to Encore
                  TellmanProduction Level 1

                  Oops- one more thing. My original files aren't 1440x1080i, it's 1920x1080i.

                   

                  Thanks....

                   

                   

                  • 7. Re: Decreasing Quality after Export to Encore
                    the_wine_snob Level 9

                    When one compares HD material, with SD (the material in a DVD-Video), they must remember that they are now looking at 1/4 of the resolution.

                     

                    I will say that an up-rezzing DVD, or BD player, will make the DVD-Video look better, but it is still NOT HD, so comparisons are not valid.

                     

                    Good luck,

                     

                    Hunt

                    • 8. Re: Decreasing Quality after Export to Encore
                      TellmanProduction Level 1

                      In other words, "You'll shoot your eye out, kid!".

                       

                       

                       

                      Sorry Mr. Hunt... I'm in a bad mood, because I feel wholly lost and alone with this video editing business. It looks .....so bad..... I even cranked the bit-rate way up beyond what any DVD player can handle. It just looks like garbage.

                       

                       

                       

                      Thanks guys... back to adjusting settings in Premeiere export and exporting a 20 second clip to see if it's any better....

                       

                      Pat

                      • 9. Re: Decreasing Quality after Export to Encore
                        the_wine_snob Level 9

                        In other words, "You'll shoot your eye out, kid!".

                         

                        Well, sort of, as poor Ralphie found out. When one down-rezzes HD to SD, there are compromises to be taken into account.

                         

                        For max quality, the answer is to author a BD, and not author an SD DVD-Video, but then the entire delivery list, must have BD players, and while common, they are not everywhere.

                         

                        When down-rezzing, much will depend on the Encoding of the HD material to SD, and for that, many here depend on Jeff Bellune's TUTORIAL. Next, one should look into the blank media used, and also the burn speed. Though those aspects affect, or at least manifest themselves, more in playability, perceived quality can be part of that equation.

                         

                        Lot of things to consider, if one is starting with HD, but then delivering SD on DVD-Video.

                         

                        Good luck, and do NOT put your tongue on a frozen flagpole - just ask Flick.

                         

                         

                        Hunt

                        • 10. Re: Decreasing Quality after Export to Encore
                          Harm Millaard Level 7

                          Pat,

                           

                          I'm not saying this will solve your issues, Bill has explained that going down to 1/4 resolution is very noticeable, but there are two workflows very popular:

                           

                          1. Let Encore do the encoding by using the File / Adobe Dynamic Link / Send to Encore, or
                          2. Use DVD-HQ  Bitrate & GOP calculator to get the best encoding settings. This is my preferred method.

                           

                          Both methods still require the best media available, like Verbatim, Taiyo-Yuden or Falcon-Pro.

                          1 person found this helpful
                          • 11. Re: Decreasing Quality after Export to Encore
                            TellmanProduction Level 1

                            Thank you both so much. I have read so many of your posts spanning many years. I have so much to learn, but I am eager and willing.


                            Thank you both VERY much.

                             

                            Mr. Hunt, the tutorial opens a HUGE can of worms. Thank God I have 700MB of HD space. This is going to be a big learning adventure.

                             


                            Diving in.... I'll kee you posted!

                             

                            Thank you both so much... it feels great to at least not be alone.

                            • 12. Re: Decreasing Quality after Export to Encore
                              TellmanProduction Level 1

                              Bill!

                               

                              The last 24 hours have been insane for me. I've done so much trial and error work, but I owe YOU, and that Jeff Bellune guy a HUGE, HUGE 'thank you'.

                               

                              I don't know what I would have done without his "open source toolkit" and "hd to sd" tutorials. God bless you guys.

                               

                              My project is still not quite where I want it, but I'm telling you now Bill- it's a hundred times better than it was.

                               

                              Thank you guys SO MUCH. I will probably be back, but I owe you guys a huge, huge debt of gratitude.

                               

                              Thanks again!

                               

                              P.V.R.

                              • 13. Re: Decreasing Quality after Export to Encore
                                Powered by Design Level 4

                                Your source material is 1440 x x1080i

                                 

                                You can see it in your screengrab.

                                 

                                Also raise the Quality up to 5

                                 

                                 

                                 

                                GLenn

                                 

                                 

                                 

                                http://content.screencast.com/users/pkilchermann/folders/Jing/media/e0dde1a8-62e6-4dc8-926a-1bde7d572e7f/2012-01-23_2019.png

                                • 14. Re: Decreasing Quality after Export to Encore
                                  the_wine_snob Level 9

                                  That is good news, and glad to have helped a bit.I think that Jeff Bellune deserves far more credit.

                                   

                                  Good luck,

                                   

                                  Hunt