12 Replies Latest reply on Feb 1, 2012 6:11 AM by ultimatte

    PC built system for Master Collection

    ultimatte

      Hi!

       

      I'm using Adobe Master Collection CS5.5, mainly Photoshop (PSB files bigger than 15GB), sometimes Premiere (1080p) and AFX.

      I need a new PC system and I'm kindly asking for help and recommendations.

       

      Here's what I'm thinking of right now:

      http://geizhals.de/eu/?cat=WL-210908

       

      Do you have any opinion on the hardware list?

      Should I get a GTX instead?

      Maybe this one:

      http://geizhals.at/eu/642410

       

      Thank you so much for your help!

      Daniel

        • 1. Re: PC built system for Master Collection
          ultimatte Level 1

          Maybe this one?!:

          http://geizhals.de/eu/?cat=WL-213874

           

          Thanks for your help!

          • 2. Re: PC built system for Master Collection
            Noel Carboni Level 8

            No doubt you've seen it, but if not, this thread might interest you: http://forums.adobe.com/thread/953224?tstart=0

             

            I'm personally a fan of Dell Precision workstations.  They emphasize throughput.

             

            I see you have an LG optical drive...  I haven't had as good a luck with my LG blu-ray writer as I'd have liked.  I don't think their driver quality is very good.

             

            -Noel

            • 3. Re: PC built system for Master Collection
              the_wine_snob Level 9

              With Adobe MC, and especially if you plan on using Premiere Pro, this ARTICLE will be very useful. Harm Millaard has done several similar articles, and they can be found in the Adobe Hardware Forum. That would also be a great place to post, as there are a lot of hardware gurus, who hang out there, and they stay very current on the latest equipment.

               

              Good luck, and though their equipment considerations are getting closer, Premiere Pro needs more power to edit Video. Still, PS will benefit in most areas, from a machine spec'ed for PrPro.

               

              Hunt

              • 4. Re: PC built system for Master Collection
                PECourtejoie Adobe Community Professional

                The configuration 5 seems perfect, lots of RAM, Fast CPU, an SSD, and a quite fast videocard, but it is not listed in the ones accelerating Premiere: http://www.adobe.com/products/premiere/tech-specs.html But I would ask in the premiere forum, if that list is still current.

                • 5. Re: PC built system for Master Collection
                  ultimatte Level 1

                  Thanks for your help!

                   

                  I'm changing over to Premiere Hardware Forum.

                   

                  You're very welcome to join in!:

                  http://forums.adobe.com/thread/954352

                   

                  Thanks again,

                  Daniel

                  • 6. Re: PC built system for Master Collection
                    ultimatte Level 1

                    One more question as here are the Photoshop Pros:

                     

                    Would you say that I need two SSDs?

                    One for OS + Photoshop, one as scratch disk?

                    Or is one big SSD for both enough / even better?

                     

                    Thank you so much!

                    • 7. Re: PC built system for Master Collection
                      Noel Carboni Level 8

                      You definitely want a separate drive for the scratch drive.  But it could be a spinning drive if the budget won't support it...  You might, for example, get a huge overall performance boost out of ganging two SSDs as a RAID 0 C: drive then using an inexpensive (but LARGE) spinning drive for Photoshop scratch.

                       

                      -Noel

                      • 8. Re: PC built system for Master Collection
                        ultimatte Level 1

                        Hmmm,

                        but spinning drives are much slower than SSDs...

                         

                        What I was told is:

                        SSDs are slower if you use them as a RAID.

                        And there is no loss of performance when you execute parallel operations on SSDs for they are built for this.

                         

                        Do you have any experience with this issue?

                        Or some tests I can have look on?

                         

                        Thanks a lot!

                        • 9. Re: PC built system for Master Collection
                          Noel Carboni Level 8

                          I don't have personal experience configuring SSDs, but just general knowledge about how systems are put together...  A SSD is connected to your motherboard by what?  A single SATA cable?  It stands to reason that if that cable were to be a bottleneck that using two of them in parallel could overcome that limitation.

                           

                          Some specific SSDs may not be well-suited for connection in a RAID setup directly, and some RAID controllers might not handle SSDs well, but I do know there are purpose-built SSD subsystems (cards that plug into PCIe) that put a lot of hardware in parallel and get huge performance gains.

                           

                          It's not hard to find articles that say the opposite of what you've been told:

                          Au contraire:- not only can an SSD RAID array offer a multiple of a single SSD's throughput, and IOPs, just as with hard disks but depending on the array configuration the operating life can be multiplied as well - because not all the disks will operate at 100% duty cycle. That means that MTBF and not write endurance will be the limiting factors. And although oem published MTBF data for hard disks has been discredited recently - the MTBF data for flash SSDs has been verified for over a decade in more discriminating applications in high reliability embedded systems.

                           

                          You're right to research this, but it may just turn out that you have to actually TRY things out for yourself - it's that new a technology shift and there's a lot of conflicting info.

                           

                          Regarding the spinning drive being slower than SSD - of course that's true, but consider this:  You really don't WANT to become dependent on the scratch drive speed.  Photoshop already uses the scratch drive in a mostly asynchronous way.  Where things get really bogged-down is when Photoshop NEEDS other (e.g., RAM) resources it can only get by swapping things to the scratch drive.  So instead of optimizing your "resource starvation" experience, put more of the primary resources (e.g., RAM) in your system.  In practical terms 16 GB or more of RAM means you won't be waiting on the scratch drive much at all (unless you like working with humongous images) - and I *do* have personal experience with this.  And there is another consideration:  There are certain Photoshop operations - such as stitching a humongous panorama with Photomerge - that can demand literally hundreds of gigabytes of scratch drive space.  I'm not kidding.  Is your scratch SSD going to be that big?

                           

                          -Noel

                          • 10. Re: PC built system for Master Collection
                            the_wine_snob Level 9

                            In very general terms, SSD's are very fast for reads, but less so for writes. That is why they are well-suited for OS and Programs. Unless one could do real-world benchmarking with the Scratch Disks on first an SSD, and then on a HDD, not sure we could get useful data. Most often, hardware reviews/tests are rather generic, and rely heavily on theoretical performance specs.

                             

                            I would wager that the benchmarks would produce results that the average user would never notice, while working in a program.

                             

                            If one is going for ultimate speed, then they would probably get best results by using 5 fast, large HHD's in RAID, managed by a dedicated controller card, with on-board RAM, such as the Areca. If considering RAID, this ARTICLE's link might be useful.

                             

                            Good luck,

                             

                            Hunt

                            • 11. Re: PC built system for Master Collection
                              pf22 Level 2

                              Bill Hunt wrote:

                               

                              In very general terms, SSD's are very fast for reads, but less so for writes. That is why they are well-suited for OS and Programs. Unless one could do real-world benchmarking with the Scratch Disks on first an SSD, and then on a HDD, not sure we could get useful data. Most often, hardware reviews/tests are rather generic, and rely heavily on theoretical performance specs.

                               

                              I would wager that the benchmarks would produce results that the average user would never notice, while working in a program.

                               

                              If one is going for ultimate speed, then they would probably get best results by using 5 fast, large HHD's in RAID, managed by a dedicated controller card, with on-board RAM, such as the Areca. If considering RAID, this ARTICLE's link might be useful.

                               

                              Good luck,

                               

                              Hunt

                               

                              I've just finished building a new system, i7 2600K, 16BG RAM, Win7 Pro 64Bit, with 2x SSD's installed, one for the OS + Apps and the second for Photoshop Scratch.

                               

                              The OS/Apps drive is brand new, and while I was still putting the system together I pointed Photoshop at one of my spinners for Scratch. The second SSD is my old OS/Apps drive from a previous system, and when I eventually got 'round to "recycling" it, I can only say that Photoshop does now seem to be snappier and more responsive than before... YMMV.

                               

                              The only thing I would say to Ultimatte is that if you do buy a 2nd SSD for Photoshop, be careful of the controller the drive uses. The controller is where the "magic" happens, not the NAND flash itself, and right now, the fastest drives out there all have one thing in common, they use a Sandforce controller. The Sandforce controller has one weakness, it chokes, or slows down - sometimes to speeds below that of a good spinner! - when handling data that cannot be compressed on the fly, such as movies, images, and music.

                               

                              This would seem to make a Sandforce driven SSD a bad choice for a Photoshop Scratch Disk, or as the only drive in a notebook, for instance. Apple uses a specific Toshiba controller in their SSD's that does not have this problem, and Kingston used the same controller in their V+100 line of drives that made them ideal, unfortunately the V+100 has been replaced by the V+200 which is a Sandforce drive; OCZ have just released a new Indilinx based drive that, again, would not have this problem. FYI, my Scratch SSD is an Indillinx drive, my OS/Apps SSD is a Sandforce drive.

                               

                              Oh, and whoever told you that SSD's are slower in RAID was wrong, VERY wrong!!! SSD performance becomes completely INSANE when they're RAID'd, but that's a whole different subject. Actually this is a fun video to give you an idea of what's possible, and please note, this was posted in March of 2009... SSD's and systems are MUCH faster now!!!

                               

                              Good luck

                              Paul

                              • 12. Re: PC built system for Master Collection
                                ultimatte Level 1

                                Thanks guy!

                                 

                                Considered you suggestions I think I gonna stick with my SSD drive (256GB).

                                I dont need 5 large spinning drives and I dont have the money for them neither for two SSDs.

                                 

                                Hopefully it's all going to be just fine!

                                 

                                Cheers,

                                Daniel

                                 

                                -> http://geizhals.de/?cat=WL-213874