8 Replies Latest reply on Jan 29, 2012 3:23 PM by Jim_Simon

    Rendering my MXF project to MXF it spews out over 25 copies of the same file: Various sizes?

    James Edmonton

      When rendering my MXF project to MXF it spews out a tonne of MXF renders of the same file: Various sizes?


      The reason that I have to render another MXF in the first place is because when I render directly from the project with all of the various effects, Magic Bullet Looks,etc,etc

      to another format, there are always problems.


      Therefore, I have no choice but to go down a generation by putting all of the sequences together and rendering an exact copy of what is in the project to MXF before I render an MPEG or a H.264.


      The size of my project is over 100 Gigabytes...


      Anyway, my most likely choice is to go with the file that has the most gigabytes. As I say... It spews out various sizes.


      Is there a way to stop the render from spewing out a tonne of MXF files and streamlining everything into one MXF??


      I have searched and searched the internet for the answer and have checked the forums to no avail.


      The other thing that I am concerned about is that a project that is over 100 Gigabytes becomes a 3.4 Gigabyte file for a 97 minute movie. (It also renders one MXF at 1.5 Gig size. Everything is exactly the same on this render as far as I can tell, as the 3.4 Gigabyte render) It renders 25 MXF files at 3.4 Gigabyes. (This is also taking up a tonne of space on my hard drive everytime I render)


      This doesn't seem to make sense because when I rendered approx 8 minutes of the begining of the movie, it rendered a 2.9 Gigabyte file in contrast to the 3.4 Gigbyte file for the entire movie.


      Somehow I feel that I may not be getting the same quality when rendering the entire production.


      Also, it takes over 5 hours to render an MXF and I feel if it was just putting out 1 file, as oppossed to over 25 MXF files of the same exact render, that the rendering time would be faster and more efficient.


      Any help and/or explainations would be appreciated...






      P.S. I just deleted a bunch of MXF files from the render, believeing that they were all duplicates. Obviously they were not, because the one that I saved, I brought into Premiere to check out and it displayed only one segment of the movie. Therefore, I figure that all of the MXF's must be connected and when you bring one in, the entire MXF is displayed, however... If you delete everything with the exception of one MXF thinking that they are all duplicates, you will only have that segment of the production. Seems to work in quite the crazy way??? lol This also seems to make sense in terms of the Gigabytes. However, Premiere only gives the properties for that 1 file that you import, even though it is connected to every other file. Which would be the projects total MXF Gigabytes. Because I deleted all of the files with the exception one, I'm Re-rendering everything. I'll leave this up in case someone else runs into the same situation, which I am sure someone will...lol

        • 1. Re: Rendering my MXF project to MXF it spews out over 25 copies of the same file: Various sizes?
          Jim_Simon Level 8

          there are always problems.


          Care to elaborate?  Perhaps we can help with those.

          • 2. Re: Rendering my MXF project to MXF it spews out over 25 copies of the same file: Various sizes?
            James Edmonton Level 1

            Hi Jim...


            Maybe I wasn't concise enough, but I did add extra later... (In the P.S. portion of the message at the end)


            Before I get to that answer, in what I hope is a more concise response. The big challenge seems to be rendering a large project on the timeline into an MPEG and/or to Bluray, etc,etc.


            This is why I am rendering an MXF (Going down a generation before making an MPEG or H.264 ) of everything on the timeline first.


            It seems that when rendering, there are issues because of the tonnes of effects, Magic Bullet Looks,etc,etc  (Premiere will render an MPEG, H.264,etc, but it will have problems with the final render. Therefore I have to go down a generation)


            Will this change if the timeline is locked, and or nested, and then you try to render an MPEG or Bluray version??? I'm not sure??? I don't have a clue about nesting... But I may try locking the timeline to see if it makes a difference. I somehow don't think that it will...


            This seems to be the same, or at least similar problem with trimming as well.


            If you have footage that is at a different speed than 100%, the trim will not properly carry that over. So, I have to actually render an MXF of any footage such as that first, and then import the new render. (You will notice that the footage is usually a freeze frame of any slow motion or faster motion clip when you check out your new trimmed project)


            Can I live with that... Sure...


            The next subject, which is releated (I guess) is the subject of the multiple MXF files after rendering...


            The multiple MXF files are not all copies, which I thought they were.


            Let's say that I render my project from MXF to MXF. (Clicking the match atributes icon P2)


            Then, I render a new MXF of eveything. When rendered it will not produce 1 entire render of the project. It will render, (in this case over 25 files)


            When you pull any one of the files into Premiere, (just one) and add it to the timeline, it will show you the entire render when you watch the clip.


            However, if you click properties on what you just imported, it will only show you the properties of that 1 clip. (Even though you have really imported all of the clips)


            But... What I did not know was that although you are only importing one clip, (which is just a segment of the entire render) Premiere is connecting all of the other clips together when you bring in that one clip.


            I figured this out when I deleted every clip, with the exception of one, and brought in the one remaining clip. (Thinking that they were all multiples)


            So, when I deleted all of the (what I thought were multiples from the hard drive, and the computer) clips with the exception of one clip, and imported that one clip only, all that could be seen when I went to watch that clip, was that segment of the movie. (minus the sound, because I had obviously deleted all or any sound clip(s) as well.


            So, I figured out was was happening there... And it's not really a big deal, although it would be nice if Premiere only produced one file.


            I just trimmed the entire project, (4750 files, 108 Gigabytes) and after trimming the project, I decided to back up the trim onto an external hard drive. (I'm always backing the project up, and I suggest everybody does the same.) Believe it or not... I still hear horror stories about projects that were not backed up. Therefore, I am going to mention my own process of saving and backing up. It may sound, and probably is on the paranoid side of things, but SAVING and BACKING up the project you are working on cannot be stressed enough. Especially when you are working on a feature film...


            I also save the project while I am working on it to the desktop, 2 internal drives, as well as an external drive. Believe me, this has saved me a few times.


            For example about a week ago premiere froze and had to close. The desktop project became corrupt when I went to open it. So I deleted the desktop icon of the project and brought in a copy from one of my other hard drives, and everything was fine.


            In other words, I am constantly saving the project on different drives. The drive that I use for editing is the desktop drive, but I save it on 3 other drives as well, and if something happens to the desktop version, (which has happened a few times), I can easily bring in a saved version from another drive. Constant update saves on various drives)


            I also trim the project and save those as backups. As well as the sequences. Not all of the time, but at certain junctures in time.


            I change the name of the project from time to time as well, by changing the date and time. And save the older versions of the project.


            I'm mentioning all of this saving because it is an absolute nightmare if you lose what you are working on, and have to work from scratch or go way back in time to start at a much earlier time,etc,etc.


            The only reason that I am mentioning this is because there may be someone out there who benefits by what I am saying, and it cannot be stressed enough about saving and backing up your projects...

            • 3. Re: Rendering my MXF project to MXF it spews out over 25 copies of the same file: Various sizes?
              James Edmonton Level 1

              When I say there are always problems Jim...


              I am talking about when you render an entire project from the timeline to the Bluray or Mpeg format. This is why I have to render another MXF of everything first. (108 Gigabyte Project 4750 files in the trim)


              As I was saying in the above long winded post... The same thing has to be done when you have faster or slower footage before you trim. You have to render that part of the project and import the new render of it because when you trim the project down later, it will not carry over.


              The same principles are somehow in play here, although slightly different...


              It's "almost" the same kind of thing when you add muzzle effects to gun shots, and/or have other effects happening.


              So "THE LOAD" is not so hard on the program/computer you have to render an MXF copy, and pull the new render in that you created and get rid of the original version on your timeline.


              It seems to me that the more elaborate a project becomes, and the bigger it becomes, these things just happen...


              And one has to just find ways to work around obstacles...

              • 4. Re: Rendering my MXF project to MXF it spews out over 25 copies of the same file: Various sizes?
                Jim_Simon Level 8

                there are issues because of the tonnes of effects


                Yeah, that's the part I was asking about.


                What issues?  Maybe that is the correct problem to solve here.

                • 5. Re: Rendering my MXF project to MXF it spews out over 25 copies of the same file: Various sizes?
                  James Edmonton Level 1



                  I just find that when you have various effects happening, that it is best to render them and import the new render back in to make everything easier on the program in general...


                  I read somewhere else here that it is even best to render any fade in and fade outs as well. (Which is what I am going to do).


                  I have 16 Gigabytes of Ram, and bought a new NVIDIA card for $600 dollars recently, and switched to the mercury engine.


                  I have found since I have done this, that playback of the effects, etc in the timeline has dramatically improved.


                  I'm doing another Bluray render right now straight from the original timeline without rendering another MXF of everything first. (And then doing the Bluray render)


                  I clicked the 2 pass for encoding and I'm going to see if this helps.


                  Because the last time that I rendered the rough cut without rendering another MXF file of the timeline first, the Bluray render was all over the place.


                  While watching the render it was bouncing back to various scenes out of order, and including edits,etc that it should not have.


                  So, the only thing that I can figure is that going from the timeline with all of the effects,etc and rendering a Bluray direct without rendering another MXF first, was that the effects were interfering with a good render.


                  I know for instance that before I installed extra ram, and bought the new NVIDIA card that when you would add Magic Bullet Effects to footage in the timeline, (Plus fade in's and fade outs, etc) that it was really hard on the Program/computer during playback on the timeline


                  Especially when you would add Magic Bullet Effects to the footage. (This is why I don't add Magic Bullet now until I am ready to render)


                  The bottom line being that, Magic Bullet Effects, (especially) plus fade ins, and fade outs too a lesser extent) are "hard" on the computer.


                  Again though... After installing more ram and the $600 NVIDIA card, everything works almost seamlessly most of the time...


                  I also notice that when you  use Action Essentials to add muzzle effects, fog, etc... That it is best to render that part of the footage and bring it back in as well.


                  I figure that playing things back that are inside the timeline, gives one a good indication of what effects are "heavier/harder" on a program/computer.


                  Maybe with a $3000 dollar Video Card and a $10,000 dollar Computer everything would be quite fine...lol


                  I notice that you have almost 18,000 posts, so I assume you have heard and most likely have experienced everything under the sun personally, lol...


                  Would locking the timeline possibly make a difference, and or nesting the timeline?


                  I don't know much about this nesting, but I'm just wondering if the timeline was locked when you done a render if it would make a difference? (The lock icon)


                  I'm going to be checking out this Bluray render here when it is done to see if the render turned out o.k. after doing a 2 pass encoding this time...

                  • 6. Re: Rendering my MXF project to MXF it spews out over 25 copies of the same file: Various sizes?
                    Jim_Simon Level 8

                    the effects were interfering with a good render.


                    That's unlikely to be the correct explanation.  Plenty of folks export (which is different than a render, make note of that) their projects straight from the sequence, effects and all, and get perfectly workable results.  In fact, I'd say most everyone does things that way.  I've been using MB effects for years, and yes it's tough on playback.  But the export always comes out just fine, even on my $800 system.


                    So...if your exports are coming out wonky, that would probably be the correct problem to solve.  But I'd probably start looking somewhere other than the effects.  Those alone should not create the issue you described.

                    • 7. Re: Rendering my MXF project to MXF it spews out over 25 copies of the same file: Various sizes?
                      James Edmonton Level 1

                      I agree with you Jim because I just made a perfect render... So it may have been something else that I did wrong.


                      I have a question on the multiplexing Jim.


                      I have checked around and the advice is to enable multiplexing when you want to syncronize the picture and the sound, as oppossed to rendering seperate files. (And not do multiplexing)


                      I done this, but it made two big files of the same render. It made an m2t file and an m2v


                      If you wouldn't mind me asking what are the correct settings to render just one file???


                      What am I doing wrong in the multiplexing???


                      I just need one file which will cut down on the rendering time as well...


                      Your advice would be appreciated...

                      • 8. Re: Rendering my MXF project to MXF it spews out over 25 copies of the same file: Various sizes?
                        Jim_Simon Level 8

                        Turn multiplexing on to create one file with video and audio.


                        Leave it off for disk (DVD or Blu-ray) authoring.