11 Replies Latest reply on Feb 4, 2012 4:10 AM by PECourtejoie

    Why can't I rotate/select my group?   Known bug? (CS5)

    Astara_ Level 1

      I have a group of a few layers that I wanted to resize.   As they are in a group and I only want to resize the object, not the picture, I select the move tool, than try to choose 'Edit->Resize'... and get a message telling me there's nothing in my group -- even though I see the object.

       

      Is this another instance of the photoshop ignoring vectors?

       

      Here's a pic of my panel and the object:

       

      unrotateable.png

       

      This seems like a similar problem to the other bug I found... I don't suppose Adobe ever releases patches?

        • 1. Re: Why can't I rotate/select my group?   Known bug? (CS5)
          c.pfaffenbichler Level 8

          I can’t reproduce the issue.

          Could a Selection be active?

          • 2. Re: Why can't I rotate/select my group?   Known bug? (CS5)
            PECourtejoie Adobe Community Professional

            I can't reproduce it either.

            Any empty channel, or anything that could be in the way?

            Astara, Looking at all your other threads, it seems that you want to work with vectors all the time, you should really be looking at Illustrator, that is made specifically for that use.

            Any thread of yours that you would want to revive? most have not been answered. There is a featured thread for that.

            • 3. Re: Why can't I rotate/select my group?   Known bug? (CS5)
              c.pfaffenbichler Level 8

              This seems like a similar problem to the other bug I found... I don't suppose Adobe ever releases patches?

              What bug would that be?

              And are you referring to updates?

              Because I’m working with Photoshop 12.0.4, meaning that Adobe has provided four updates so far.

              • 4. Re: Why can't I rotate/select my group?   Known bug? (CS5)
                Astara_ Level 1

                I converted about half-75% of my layers to vectors, but the rest I need to as paintable surfaces.  I just want the default backgrounds to take 1k vs. 64M.   I have Illustrator, it's impossible to draw with -- inkscape is better than that!  If I was doing drafting, it might be what I needed, but I'm trying graphic arts with painting and effects -- and I need 64-bits I think since with 48G, photoshop uses up to 36 of that before it will spill with a 100-150GB swap file. 

                 

                My file was over 3G, without converting to vector layers would have been 4-5GB, (tiff), after converting nearly all the static monocolor layers and gradient layers to vectors, the file shrunk to 250MB. 

                 

                It looks cleaner, it's easier to modify things... easier to reposition parts, the problem is that vector elements don't hold or glom on to other vector elements -- the group that I'm trying to maniupulate is composed of pure vector elements... vector shapes (all the same one actually, I was trying to get it manipulatable, but no success).   If I rotate the vectors, none of the gradients (or other vectors) rotate with respect the vector I rotate -- even though they are all locked together.  When I translated them x-y, the centers of the gradients didn't move, even though they are relative to the layer and not to the edges of the picture.

                 

                They are different -- you can see this  -- if I disable the vector from a gradient layer, the graident's center shifts to the center of the picture... i.e. a gradient with a transition at the 50% mark oriented vertically, will be at position 2000,0 - 2000,4000, (x,y), (in a 4000x4000 picture) with the vectore turned off.  But with it activated, the center will be at the center of the bounds of the graident layer when you create it.  But if you move it -- it won't move.

                 

                If you rotate it , it won't rotate, nor will other linked vectors in the group.

                 

                I think that's the same problem with this -- as far as the "rotation/manipulation" s/w is concerned, the vectors and graidents "don't exists"...that's why they say their is nothing in the selection field and that's why they don't rotate vectors or gradients along with their bitmapped accents.

                 

                In this case, I built a hair-holder, purely out of gradients and shapes -- turned out much better than my hand painted one.  For many things, I can't use gradients (or if I did, would take way too many layers...)  At 500+ layers, photoshop groans unless I turn most of them off.   A paint/brush stroke can take up to a minute (it only uses 2  out 6 cores max, for filling these in)..   It can't handle that many layers unless they are off.  Why it doesn't process them in parallel -- and why it doesn't do a better job of knowing most of them don't contribute to the area I'm drawing in is beyond me.

                 

                Maybe it's the same problem -- since it doesn't see the vector stuff (gradents, fill layers, shapes, vector masks), maybe it doesn't schedule them on multiple processes.

                 

                pfaffenbichelr --

                 

                All of those masks are vector masks.  No bitmapped graphics in that group anywyhere.

                Did you create your example with only vector masks and gradients (or the photog effects).....I think

                if I put a bit map layer in there, it would rotate the bitmap layer, but then mixed results on others stuff.

                 

                 

                As for reviving old questions... I doubt it would help... they are easily duplicated bugs that Adobe doesn't really want to fix.  If they did, they'd contact me and tell me where to upload my files... and when I could test out my patch. 

                 

                I'd love it if they'd fix these problems, but I'm not holding my breath...

                • 5. Re: Why can't I rotate/select my group?   Known bug? (CS5)
                  c.pfaffenbichler Level 8

                  I did create a group containing gradients with vector masks and those vector masks rotate, scale etc. just fine when the group is selected and the transfromation is invoked via Edit > Free Transform (cmd-T).

                  The gradients themselves did not – would have to convert them to SOs, I guess.

                   

                  Your claim »as far as the "rotation/manipulation" s/w is concerned, the vectors and graidents "don't exists"« seems to be at least half incorrect.

                  • 6. Re: Why can't I rotate/select my group?   Known bug? (CS5)
                    c.pfaffenbichler Level 8

                    vectorMasksInGroupScr.jpg

                    Edit:

                    If I rotate the vectors, none of the gradients (or other vectors) rotate with respect the vector I rotate -- even though they are all locked together. 

                    Gradient Layers indeed do not rotate with their Masks, regardless of vector or pixel, as they are Fill Layers.

                    You could create a Feature Request about that.

                     

                    I have Illustrator, it's impossible to draw with

                    Are you sure?

                    Have you tried all the Tools (Paintbrush, Pencil, Pen …)?

                    • 7. Re: Why can't I rotate/select my group?   Known bug? (CS5)
                      PECourtejoie Adobe Community Professional

                      Astara_ wrote:

                       

                      I have Illustrator, it's impossible to draw with -- inkscape is better than that!


                       

                      Two solutions: get Von Glichka's Vector Basic Training book to learn how to use the pen tool, and build a systematic approach on drawing in AI, or Mordy Golding's Real World Illustrator Book, where you will learn of several methods to draw without the pen tool: shapes substraction, and the best tool for you, the blob brush! http://help.adobe.com/en_US/illustrator/cs/using/WS4E460ED4-933D-4214-9735-4197A55C03D9.ht ml

                       

                      As for the bugs Adobe "ignores", please don't get upset, but we often have a hard time following your posts...

                       

                      I would strongly suggest to write them down, try to explain them in the fewer words possible, yet hightling all the important points, and have steps to be able to reproduce said bug.

                      Then, post them at http://feedback.photoshop.com They do listen: there are currently several engineers looking on a bug I reported there.

                       

                      I've now been able to reproduce your bug, I did not notice that all the links are disabled. In effect, you would not be rotating anything, I'd file that to expected behavior.

                       

                      But I'm really wondering if you are not using the wrong tool for your illustrations (and AI has bristle brushes), or at least a sub-optimal workflow: in his humungous paintings (60x300 inches hyperrealist photoshop painting), Bert Monroy often cuts the images in several elements, to only merge them in the final flattened document.

                      • 8. Re: Why can't I rotate/select my group?   Known bug? (CS5)
                        Astara_ Level 1

                        c.pfaffenbichler wrote:

                         

                        vectorMasksInGroupScr.jpg

                        Edit:

                        If I rotate the vectors, none of the gradients (or other vectors) rotate with respect the vector I rotate -- even though they are all locked together. 

                        Gradient Layers indeed do not rotate with their Masks, regardless of vector or pixel, as they are ** Layers.

                        ** - You use of 'jargon' words is necessary for your paragraph to make sense. Have you ever looked at a .grd / gradient file?  They are Floating-point fomula describing color points and a vector.  They aren't some 'magic' jagon word.  

                         

                            If you can rotate the rest of vectors, that should rotate too.  A solid color layer is simpler -- no vector and only 1 point. 

                         

                            There's little reason I can see they don't just allow one to assign color points along hand drawn lines, rather than limit you to a few fixed patterns.

                         

                        Your claim »as far as the "rotation/manipulation" s/w is concerned, the vectors and graidents "don't exists"« seems to be at least half incorrect.

                        You could create a Feature Request about that.

                        Gee... you mean I might almost have been half correct?  ?!?!  I can see it was touch to admit even 'half',  given your wording and the fact that you later edited even that admission out...  If used Edit, and free transform AND edit/rotate -- both gave the message I show above.

                        The layer was selected, as indicated by the blue color.  The VECTORS were NOT... if you select the vectors, you can rotate them separately from the layer with Edit/Transform.  You didn't 'select the vectors' first, and then expect the layer to rotate did you?  

                         

                        I have Illustrator, it's impossible to draw with

                        Are you sure?

                        Have you tried all the Tools (Paintbrush, Pencil, Pen …)?

                        Given that I really like SVG and how you can take a 6GB photoshop file down to 200MB without loss of content, just by hand vectorizing the stuff photoshop creates formula-bit maps for. 

                         

                        I really tried illustrator, but while I found the interface to photoshop, alien in commands , though familiar in structure, I found illustrator to be both alien  in command and structure... it's like it isn't from the same company!   I can't believe the two products are offered together as a suite...   Completely separate product lines, maybe.... 

                         

                        I wasn't ever able to get comfortable with it where as photoshop, I was able to do basics from the first hour. (really basic, ok?)

                         

                          But I could see the general layout and have found more inter-relations over time. etc... not well documented, and not always orthogonal, they way they appear to be designed - but part of that maybe due to things not quite working/fitting together... like rotating vectors half working for you and not working at all if you try to rotate them as layers...

                        • 9. Re: Why can't I rotate/select my group?   Known bug? (CS5)
                          PECourtejoie Adobe Community Professional

                          Why do you want to unlink the vector masks in this case? Limk'em and you'll be able to rotate the group.

                          I see where a checkbox "rotate with layer" would be useful, but the origin point needs to be the same for the rotation to match.

                           

                          Also, there is a whole video class on drawing in Illustrator without the pen tool: http://www.lynda.com/Illustrator-CS5-tutorials/Illustrator-Insider-Training-Drawing-withou t-the-Pen-Tool/86000-2.html

                          • 10. Re: Why can't I rotate/select my group?   Known bug? (CS5)
                            c.pfaffenbichler Level 8

                            Gee... you mean I might almost have been half correct?  ?!?!  I can see it was touch to admit even 'half',  given your wording and the fact that you later edited even that admission out...  If used Edit, and free transform AND edit/rotate -- both gave the message I show above.

                            Your observation on Gradient Layers’ content was indeed correct.

                            What I did miss (and Pierre noticed) in your screenshot is that you unlinked the Vector Masks so the behaviour you complained about was caused by your own decisions, not by paths being ignored in transformations in principle.

                             

                            As the »half« does appear in the post are you sure I edited it out?

                             

                            that should rotate too. 

                            You have a point, but your best option in this case is a Feature Request over at

                            http://feedback.photoshop.com/

                            to gauge other users’ support and ultimately the Adobe folks’ assessment.

                            • 11. Re: Why can't I rotate/select my group?   Known bug? (CS5)
                              PECourtejoie Adobe Community Professional

                              Christoph, thanks for your tact and patience.