22 Replies Latest reply on Feb 11, 2012 3:09 PM by Peter Spier

    Am I in Trouble?

    Paul R Stark Level 1

      I am just learning CS4. Although I have experience with PP, PS, & AE, ID seems to be a whole new animal.

       

      I bought a template from VideoHive. It opens with 358 errors per PREFLIGHT in Basic, but missing links, etc. I understand because there are no images or fonts. But there are 19 overset text errors.

       

      Now, a week into my first project, a workbook from a magazine template, a slightly customized PREFLIGHT is reporting 573 cyan, magenta, or yellow plate errors, 105 non-proportional scalings, 29 overset texts, and a bleed and slug error, and more.

       

      How serious are all these, especially the non-proportional scaling? What if it's only non-proportional by 5%? I know I resampled low res jpeg images up to 300 ppi and saved them as PSD's, but that apparently is a big no-no. This will be sent out for printing, but I have a feeling I've a lot of work to do still.

       

      Please tell me it's not as bad as it looks, but I'll take the truth--even if it hurts.

       

      Thx.

       

      Paul

        • 1. Re: Am I in Trouble?
          John Hawkinson Level 5

          Now, a week into my first project, a workbook from a magazine template, a slightly customized PREFLIGHT is reporting 573 cyan, magenta, or yellow plate errors, 105 non-proportional scalings, 29 overset texts, and a bleed and slug error, and more.

           

          How serious are all these, especially the non-proportional scaling?

          Overset text is extremely serious -- it means your text is getting cut off.

          Bleed and slug depend on how your document is set up, and is probably not a large issue.

          CMYK errors suggest you need to convert to RGB, either on document export or prior to placing photos.

           

          As for non-proportional scaling, it really depends on your document. If it's a line art cartoon, almost no one will notice. If it is a photograph, well, some people will always see it. Some more than others. Depends on your audience. I'd really wouldn't do it ever (just crop instead), but I suspect 1% is a reasonable threshold (not 5%). Three's really no reason to do it and every reason not to. Anyone looking at your document will instantly conclude it was produced by someone who did not know what they were doing.

          • 2. Re: Am I in Trouble?
            [Jongware] Most Valuable Participant

            Paul Stark wrote:

             

            I am just learning CS4. Although I have experience with PP, PS, & AE, ID seems to be a whole new animal.

            [...]

            I know I resampled low res jpeg images up to 300 ppi and saved them as PSD's, but that apparently is a big no-no. This will be sent out for printing [...]

             

            You have experience with PS (Photoshop, right?) and you think upsampling low-res JPEGs is okay?

             

            Unfortunately, this is a common mistake. "I have an image in 72 dpi", one may think, "and 'printing' needs 300 dpi so why can't I just change it with PS?" Well, as John remarks, it depends on the image, but in general upsampling does not magically "enhance" the image up to printing resolution. Sure, the resolution is there but PS cannot invent the detail that ought to be in those pixels -- the upsampled image will print exactly as blurred as if you used the original. (Possibly slightly blurrier, which is actually ever so slightly better; if you use the original low-res image, you would see sharp pixel edges.)

            • 3. Re: Am I in Trouble?
              Peter Spier Most Valuable Participant (Moderator)

              John said your CMY errors mean you need to convert to RGB, but it could also mean that you are supposed to be working iin Grayscale, K only, nad you have something that is actually in color, quite ofte this would be an RGB image that LOOKS like grayscale, but is still RGB.

               

              I think the uypsampling has been covered, but here's one more perspective on non-proportional scaling. Do it only for artisitic effect, and if you do it for artisitic effect, do it a lot so it is clear that you intended it, not so slight that readers will wonder.

              • 4. Re: Am I in Trouble?
                Paul R Stark Level 1

                Thanks for your response, John.

                Overset text is extremely serious -- it means your text is getting cut off.

                I'm puzzled by this. I'm using a VideoHive template. When in Preview mode, the letters are not cut off. I guess they would be when printed??? What is the solution, resize the frame? Or if it's drop caps, increase the leading/space before?

                 

                CMYK errors suggest you need to convert to RGB, either on document export or prior to placing photos.

                I'm confused about this. The template comes in CMYK and everything I've read says you must either use CMYK or export to PDF in CMYK for the printing to look good.

                 

                As for non-proportional scaling, I haven't cropped. I've been using the Direct Selection Tool and stretching, in most cases, the images, mostly photos, to fit the frame. While this resizing was okay in PS for video purposes, ID for printing appears to be a different matter.

                 

                Thanks for the help.

                 

                Paul

                • 5. Re: Am I in Trouble?
                  John Hawkinson Level 5

                  I'm puzzled by this. I'm using a VideoHive template. When in Preview mode, the letters are not cut off. I guess they would be when printed??? What is the solution, resize the frame?

                  Without a screenshot ("Without seeing what you see"), how could we know?

                  You should see a red plus sign when not in Preview mode. Go look at why it is there.

                  Also, post a screenshot.

                   

                  CMYK errors suggest you need to convert to RGB, either on document export or prior to placing photos.

                  I'm confused about this. The template comes in CMYK and everything I've read says you must either use CMYK or export to PDF in CMYK for the printing to look good.

                  THat's because I wrote it backwards! Though I suppose if you have an RGB document you might need to convert your CMYK images to RGB, but most likely, yes, it is the other way around. But you haven't told us what rule you have set up, what your document's output intent is, or what the error is. So we can just blindly speculate.

                   

                  Throw us a bone!

                  • 6. Re: Am I in Trouble?
                    BobLevine MVP & Adobe Community Professional

                    Paul,

                     

                     

                     

                    Overset text means that you have more text than will fit in the frame that contains it.

                     

                     

                     

                    This is an incredibly basic question and I fear you’re going to be in for a world of hurt if you try to get this printed.

                     

                     

                     

                    Please consider investing in a good book and some training. I highly recommend Sandee Cohen’s Visual Quick Start Guide. You can still get the CS4 version here: http://amzn.to/z3iS7L

                     

                     

                     

                    Additionally, a month to month subscription to Lynda.com is only $25. This link will get you a free one week trial: http://bit.ly/fcGpiI

                     

                     

                     

                    Bob

                    • 7. Re: Am I in Trouble?
                      Peter Spier Most Valuable Participant (Moderator)

                      The best way to find out what text is actually overset is to use Story Editor. If preflight says you have overset text, click the link to take you to the location, then Edit > Edit in Story Editor... or Ctrl (Cmd on Mac) + Y to openthe story editor window. What's overset will be highlighted by a red demarcation line. Often times it turns out to be nothing more than the silly trailing paragraph marker From Word, which you can just delete, but if it's actual text, you'll see it.

                       

                      Perhaps you could tell us WHY cmy would throw an error in your profile? Is there a reason you don't want those plates?

                      • 8. Re: Am I in Trouble?
                        Paul R Stark Level 1

                        Screen shots:

                        Overset text sample

                        Overset text sample.JPG

                        Overset text sample 2-Preview mode

                        Overset text sample-2.JPG

                        PreFlight report summary

                        Preflight report.JPG

                        Setup-what i presumed John meant by "what rule you have set up"

                        Setup.JPG

                        Story board sample

                        Story board sample.JPG

                        Color settings

                        Color settings.JPG

                         

                        "...and you have something that is actually in color, quite ofte this would be an RGB image that LOOKS like grayscale, but is still RGB"

                        I don't know of anything grayscale.


                        Perhaps you could tell us WHY cmy would throw an error in your profile? Is there a reason you don't want those plates?

                        I don't know why cmy puts an error in the profile. I got a cmyk template and I'm rushing trying to create a workbook go to with a DVD curriculum that I'm way past the deadline on.

                         

                        If there's anything else y'all need from me, just let me know? I'm so grateful for the emergent help since I don't have time to learn ID properly right now.

                         

                        Paul

                        • 9. Re: Am I in Trouble?
                          Paul R Stark Level 1

                          I deselected "cmy plate not allowed" in my Preflight Profile. It eliminated the 573 cmy plate errors, of course.

                           

                          I see your point now, Peter. I can't think of any reason why I wouldn't want those plates.

                           

                          Now, on to the rest of this nightmare

                          • 10. Re: Am I in Trouble?
                            Peter Spier Most Valuable Participant (Moderator)

                            Your screen shota aren't erribly helpful aince thay don't show the point at which the text is going overset in the layout the first case, or the transition in the story editor view, so all I can say is whatever that story is, it has a LOT of overset text. Is it something ath is supposed to be in the document, or is it superfluous?

                            • 11. Re: Am I in Trouble?
                              Paul R Stark Level 1

                              Thanks, Peter.

                               

                              Actually, I’m making a lot of progress—always have to put in the time, unfortunately. But your comments and the others’ have helped a lot.

                               

                              My overset text was actually overflow text, so I cut my text and just deleted the template Latin (or whatever it was), replaced it with mine and that took care of it.

                               

                              So I’m working on the non-proportional scalings now, one by one, and trying to get either Fill Frame or Fit Content Proportionally to fix it. When that doesn’t work because my image is too small, I’ve discovered I can physically resize the frames to fit the image (not Fit Frame to Content) and that’s working so far and should be fine as long as it still looks good on the page(s). So I think I’m on my way.

                               

                              I do, however, have one more question. Preflight is giving me a Bleed and Slug error as a result of an Incorrect page size or orientation error. The recommended fix is to change the document size to 8-½ x 11 inches. It’s less than that, European A4 size I think (the designer is from England). So I think when I switched the measurements to inches the document is looking for the new, American size. Is it okay to send to the printer and just tell him it’s A4 or go back to millimeters or what, because when I change the page size to 8-½ x 11 inches, everything moves?

                               

                              Thx.

                               

                              Paul

                              • 12. Re: Am I in Trouble?
                                Peter Spier Most Valuable Participant (Moderator)

                                You've lost me again. Changing the ruler uints doesn't do anything to the page size. What, exactly , is the error?

                                • 13. Re: Am I in Trouble?
                                  Paul R Stark Level 1

                                  The template page size is 210mm x 297mm “including 3mm all the way around” (per designer). That equates to 8.2677” x 11.6929”, which is what I got when I changed the Units and Increments to inches from millimeters.

                                  Units & Increments.JPG

                                  If I change the Page Size to "Letter" in Document Setup, responding to the bleed/slug/page size/orientation error message recommendation, then the pages shift the content.

                                   

                                  So, can I send this to the printer as an A4 document and he'll know how to handle it, meaning also that I can ignore the above referenced error message?

                                   

                                  Thx.

                                   

                                  Paul

                                  • 14. Re: Am I in Trouble?
                                    Peter Spier Most Valuable Participant (Moderator)

                                    A4 is not Letter. If you switch from one to the other any number of things might happen, depending on how the template is built and whether Layout Adjustment is active or not when you make the change. Without Layot adjustment I would expect to see objects remain the same size and maintian their relative positions with respect to each other, but not necessarily be where you want them on the pages. With Layout Adjustment on, the rules are so complex that all bets are off, particularly since you won't show us the file.

                                     

                                    If you send the printer an A4 file when he expects Letter, he'll most like send it back and tell you to fix it, or else he'll print what you send and provide you with an A4 document.  This is probably all fixable, but not through the forum, and would have been easier had it happened as the first thing before you started adding new content.

                                    • 15. Re: Am I in Trouble?
                                      Paul R Stark Level 1

                                      I really was just asking if it's okay to send a printer an A4 document here in the U.S., telling him it's an A4 document, that this is common, and he'll be able to handle it just fine, provided he's a good printer.

                                      • 16. Re: Am I in Trouble?
                                        Peter Spier Most Valuable Participant (Moderator)

                                        It should be OK, but ask if it will fit the press. Most press sheet sizes will work equally well with letter or A4, but if this is a digital job, it's going to be expensive to print here becasue he'll need to get the correct paper size.

                                        • 17. Re: Am I in Trouble?
                                          Paul R Stark Level 1

                                          particularly since you won't show us the file.

                                          I'm sorry, Peter. I just noticed this. Please tell me how to show you the file and I will be pleased to do so.

                                          • 18. Re: Am I in Trouble?
                                            Peter Spier Most Valuable Participant (Moderator)

                                            Paul, it sounds like things are under control for the moment, so I don't think we need to look at the file right now, but for future reference, to share a file you need to put it on a server someplace and either post a link here, which sahres withthe world, or send a private message to one of us with the link in that. One way to get it on a server is to send the file to yourself using YouSendIt.com

                                            • 19. Re: Am I in Trouble?
                                              Paul R Stark Level 1

                                              Peter,

                                               

                                              I am wasting so much time trying to find files that will fit the frames on the pages 18-19 spread. So I uploaded the ID file for review here  <https://www.yousendit.com/download/T2djeUNJQTZTRTVqQThUQw> https://www.yousendit.com/download/T2djeUNJQTZTRTVqQThUQw. there are a couple I’ve gotten to fit, but I’m spending days on this, so I must be missing something fundamental.

                                               

                                              If you can tell me why it’s taking me hours to find one, hi-res photo from www.sxc.hu, for example, that I can insert without continually having to abandon the image because I can’t get it to fit, I would be most grateful. Is it just that the frames are so small or slanted?

                                               

                                              Any advice you can offer would be most appreciated.

                                               

                                              Thx.

                                               

                                              Paul

                                              • 20. Re: Am I in Trouble?
                                                Peter Spier Most Valuable Participant (Moderator)

                                                Hi Paul.

                                                 

                                                It certainly doesn't help that those frames are skewed, but a 6 x 4 inch image @ 300 ppi is more than adquate. The trick is to find one that you can throw away half on and still get something usable in that narrow band. I uspect that's waht you are running into.

                                                 

                                                There's a trick you can use in photoshop to expand the width of a photo with a fairly smooth background.

                                                Expand the canvas width (Image > Canvas Size...).

                                                 

                                                In CS5  use the rectangular marquee tool to select the new canvas areas, with a bit of overlap into the background, then Edit > Fill.. and choose Content Aware.

                                                 

                                                In earlier versions, use the rectangular marquee tool to select as much of the background as you can up to but not including any of the new canvas area (one side at a time). Copy and paste to a new layer, then flip the content on the new layer horizontally and move it so the edges match up with the background and cover some of the new canvas. Repeat as required to fill the new area, flipping the new layer each time so the parts are "book matched." If the background is fairly even this should work pretty well, but you may also want to add anoter copy of the first selection and leave it in it's original position over the background, then merge the new layers (but not the original image) so you have one layer withthe image, and one with the new background patch. Add some blur or noise, or both, to smooth out the obvious tile lines, then use a layer mask with a gradient fill to blend the patch layer and the background.

                                                • 21. Re: Am I in Trouble?
                                                  Paul R Stark Level 1

                                                  It certainly doesn't help that those frames are skewed, but a 6 x 4 inch image @ 300 ppi is more than adquate. The trick is to find one that you can throw away half on and still get something usable in that narrow band. I uspect that's what you are running into.

                                                  That's it precisely. The fact that I have 36 slanted frames to deal with is just unbearable.

                                                  There's a trick you can use in photoshop

                                                  That's a lot of work if I have to do it 36 times, but it sounds a little like cloning, which might also accomplish your "trick".

                                                   

                                                  Anyway, thanks for taking the time to look at my nightmare while you deal with your own.

                                                   

                                                  Paul

                                                  • 22. Re: Am I in Trouble?
                                                    Peter Spier Most Valuable Participant (Moderator)

                                                    IN CS5 it's in credibly fast using content aware fill. Less than a minute per image I would estimate.