25 Replies Latest reply on Feb 14, 2012 10:08 AM by John Ratard

    Is there a better Cross Dissolve method and associated problem?

    John Ratard Level 1

      I have been using Cross Dissolve for some time now.  I have searched and reviewed cross dissolve help in the forum without so far finding better information or a solution.

       

      My method:

      - razor at the point to be dissolved

      - drag the Cross Dissolve to the razor point

      - click the dissolve to select the length required

      - razor each end of the dissolve length

      - right click each razored section with a ripple delete

      - reapply the cross dissolve and reselect the length

       

      I find this works for me but could be simpler.  I ripple delete the razored sections because if I do not, the cross dissolves overlap previous sections prior and after the selected clips in the whole video sequence such that the effect appears not to work.  Ripple deleting ensures that the previous sections are within the selected clips.  There has to be a faster way.

       

      My problem:

      This happens after many successful cross dissolves in a Project as though I have run out of allowable times it can be used.  When I try to ripple delete the razored sections, the ripple delete does not work no matter what I do. 

       

      What can I do better or correctly to cross dissolve and how can I deal with untimely failed ripple deletes?

        • 1. Re: Is there a better Cross Dissolve method and associated problem?
          shooternz Level 6

          You win the prize for the hardest way to edit and the most difficult way to apply a Cross Dissolve.

           

           

           

          For your own good...

          Learn how to set an In and an Out point for a clip.

          Learn how to get your edited clip into the sequence ( timeline) - Insert and Overlay

           

          Use Basic Tutorials (Video and Books)  and the User Manual ( pdf) to achieve and learn this fundamental of editing.

           

          Once you have two clips in the time line...select the exact position between them and drag on a transition or hit Ctrl-D ( for the default transition  - usually a Cross dissolve)

          • 2. Re: Is there a better Cross Dissolve method and associated problem?
            Stephen_Spider Level 3

            I don't get why you are razoring your dissolves. Your method seems like building hoops to jump through

             

            My method:

             

            - Edit clips with appropriate amount of pre and post roll.

            - Add clips to sequence

            - Apply dissolve between clips.

            - make simple adjustments on timeline if needed

            -  If dissove timing needs fine adjustment, select it and adjust in effect controls tab.

            1 person found this helpful
            • 3. Re: Is there a better Cross Dissolve method and associated problem?
              John Ratard Level 1

              Fortunately after many wedding and travel DVDs, I am not as inexperienced as shooternz imagines.  Otherwise, I would not be able to work on the large Spain project I am working on now.  My Cross Dissolve may be building hoops to jump through as Stephen_Spider states but I appreciate his method that includes pre and post roll.  I shall definitely use this, instead of the method I have used that does work with more effort.  I work on a full length captured video, cutting, moving, deleting, inserting, color correcting, exporting clips to work on in Photoshop, dynamic linking to Encore and After Effects, using mocha AE to remove unwanted images, etc.  I am still learning.

               

              Thanks Stephen for your help.  Perhaps the problem I have with the failure of Cross Dissolve to work with my method after many applications will disappear using pre and post roll.

              • 4. Re: Is there a better Cross Dissolve method and associated problem?
                John Ratard Level 1

                Stephen,

                 

                I have always had preroll and postroll set for 2 seconds each in Edit/Preferences/General.  I thought this was supposed to automatically remove 2 seconds from the end section and beginning section of two clips for the application of a Cross Dissolve.  If this is the case, they do not work for me in this application.  Perhaps I have been interpreting the function of pre and post roll incorrectly or some other function is taking precedence.  I noticed others were having similar problems when I researched this on the Internet.

                 

                The failure of the ripple deletes to function was solved by clearing the added music track.

                 

                John

                • 5. Re: Is there a better Cross Dissolve method and associated problem?
                  shooternz Level 6

                  I was not implying anything about your "experience" or otherwise although your method did actualy indicate a lack of editing experience..

                   

                  It was you that asked for a more simpler, faster  way to do one of the most fundamental editing functions.  A cross dissolve.

                   

                  I find this works for me but could be simpler.  I ripple delete the razored sections because if I do not, the cross dissolves overlap previous sections prior and after the selected clips in the whole video sequence such that the effect appears not to work.  Ripple deleting ensures that the previous sections are within the selected clips.  There has to be a faster way.

                   

                  I do not know how  or why you developed the method you described...

                   

                  My method:

                  - razor at the point to be dissolved

                  - drag the Cross Dissolve to the razor point

                  - click the dissolve to select the length required

                  - razor each end of the dissolve length

                  - right click each razored section with a ripple delete

                  - reapply the cross dissolve and reselect the length

                   

                  but it certainly is unique ....if somewhat cumbersome and time consuming.

                   

                  I only offered the advice that lead you to a "simpler , faster " way of doing a very simple function.

                   

                  Your post number 4.  Yes you have misinterpreted that setting. 

                  Stephen kind of unintentionally mislead you by using the term Pre and Post roll  when he should have said " handles". (ie edit the clip  knowing you have additional frames either end to create a fade from.

                  • 7. Re: Is there a better Cross Dissolve method and associated problem?
                    John Ratard Level 1

                    Thanks for your help regarding handles.  I can see why you must have thought my Cross Dissolve technique looked amateurish.

                     

                    OK. I can see handles that allow frames before and after a clip will work.  I see this as breaking up the length of video into clips or as required on the go so that the clips can be provided with handles.  I may be wrong.  However, to me, what I have been doing within the length of the total video is doing something similar by measuring the exact amount of the additional frames to be removed using the Cross Dissolve in the center of the razored section as a measurement.  I then razor both ends, ripple delete the required lengths from both sections, and apply the Cross Dissolve again.  Sometimes, the clip is unintentionally quite short so that simple handles remove too much of the Clip and are not a good solution.  I then use the Clip/Speed to lengthen the duration slightly and tick the Ripple Edit box so that extra frames are available.  This usually does not degrade the clip.

                     

                    I wonder why the Cross Dissolve does not do this automatically since I imagine it would save a lot of time to provide handles for many applications of Cross Dissolve in a lengthy video.

                     

                    Being a creature of habit, I can change with help. I presume you do what James does but replacing the terms "pre roll" and "post roll" words with "handles"?

                     

                    John

                    • 8. Re: Is there a better Cross Dissolve method and associated problem?
                      the_wine_snob Level 9

                      With film, and A-B Roll editing, Handles were obvious, as there had to be overlap.

                       

                      With video editing in a single Video Track, they are really hidden, but need to be accounted for, never the less. They are provided for, by setting In & Out Points in the Clip.

                       

                      Good luck,

                       

                      Hunt

                      • 9. Re: Is there a better Cross Dissolve method and associated problem?
                        John Ratard Level 1

                        Thanks Ann.

                         

                        Transitions are exactly what I am looking for.  I have noted the window showing the transitions between frames when the dissolve is double clicked.  This gives excellent control for the effect being developed.  Dragging the beginning and ending of the frames to shorten the clips is a lot faster than razoring and ripple deleting.  I could still use the Cross Dissolve to measure how far to drag for short clips to save a shortage of frames if needed.  The right click on the Cross Dissolve In the Effects Panel to set the default is the solution for applying the same Cross Dissolves throughout.

                         

                        I do not need special control of Cross Dissolves most of the time.  This method is good for special effects.  However, being able to razor anywhere in the length of a video in the timeline, applying the Cross Dissolve to the center of the razor point, and the program automatically takes care of the shorten and lengthen of the two sides would save me time because I do not always use the same length of transition.

                         

                        Do you know how this default Cross Dissolve works?  As a past programmer, I can imagine how it could save process steps when applying the Cross Disslove.  But what triggers it precisely?  Is it only when working in the Cross Dissolve dialog box i.e. the box that pops up when the Cross Dissolve is double clicked?

                         

                        John

                        • 10. Re: Is there a better Cross Dissolve method and associated problem?
                          John Ratard Level 1

                          Thanks Bill,

                           

                          I can see in the filming industry where several numbered and labelled takes of many takes are made over a period of time by a film crew, everything was already mostly in clips.  Videos I take are continuous so rather than cut it all up into clips, I tried to save time by doing as much work in the timeline as possiible.  I have not tried both methods to see if cutting and labelling it all is shorter.  I do take shots out of sequence to capture scenes I need to tell a story composed on the fly.  This does involve moving clips back and forth along the time line.

                           

                          I tried to see if the in and out points might be applied to clips in the timeline but this did not appear to work.  Without prearraging many individual clips of a lengthy video before application to the time line where my video presently resides, I would need to double click both clips into the Source Monitor from the time line to do this.  I would then need to apply the out point to the preceeding clip and the in point to the following clip, or at both ends if Cross Dissolves are needed at both, then reinsert them into the time line for the application of the Cross Dissolve.  Either this or all prearranged clips would need in and out points in preparation if they are needed.  Am I correct or is there a better way?

                           

                          John

                          • 11. Re: Is there a better Cross Dissolve method and associated problem?
                            shooternz Level 6

                            Am I correct or is there a better way?

                             

                            Yes sir ..there is a better way.

                             

                             

                            Place your long clip in the Source monitor.

                             

                            Set In and Out points ( I or O)  and then overlay or insert to the timeline using the Insert or Overlay tools or just drag it into the timeline

                             

                            Do the same with the next one.

                             

                            If you want a transition...drag one to the space between thhe clips or use CTRL-D for the default transition.

                             

                            I suggest again that you take a look at the excellent starting tuorials for PPRO on adobetv.

                            1 person found this helpful
                            • 12. Re: Is there a better Cross Dissolve method and associated problem?
                              SFL46 Level 3

                              The effect control tab provides a graphical view of what appears to be A and B rolls on separate tracks separated by the transistion clip.  You can use the PrPro trim tools right in the effect control tab to establish sufficient head an tail for the transition to work.  Portions of the transition that do not have adequate head or tail will be cross-hatched.  Your job is to move the clip in/out points or the transition to make the cross-hatching disappear. 

                              1 person found this helpful
                              • 13. Re: Is there a better Cross Dissolve method and associated problem?
                                John Ratard Level 1

                                Thanks SFL46 for the effects control tab suggestion.  When I use the clips created by the razor tool in a full length video in the timeline, there will always be preceeding and following video to the clips so I do not see the cross-hatched effect.  However, I do the following and it works for me using the Effects Control tab.

                                 

                                - razor the section of continuous video in the time line needing a Cross Dissolve.

                                - apply the Cross Dissolve to the razor point.

                                - double click the Cross Dissolve to open the Effects Control tab.

                                - change the Duration if not the default.

                                - from the right edge of the Cross Dissolve image in the right pane of the Effects Control tab trim A clip to the razor line.

                                - do the same for the B clip from the left edge of the Cross Dissolve image.

                                - adjust the Duration as required.

                                - click out of the Effects Control tab.

                                 

                                I found a 3 second dissolve more difficult using the above steps because of limited space in the tab window.  I used the Cross Dissolve image as a gauge to determine how far I needed to trim A and B.  However, its done quickly without moving 2 clips to the Source Monitor from the time line to apply in and out points for both with sufficient handles, insert both back to the time line, then apply the Cross Dissolve and adjust the duration if not the default.  Either way it works.  I hope I did the Effects Control tab method efficiently and correctly.

                                • 14. Re: Is there a better Cross Dissolve method and associated problem?
                                  shooternz Level 6

                                  You are still making this overly difficult for your self.

                                   

                                  It should take about 5 seconds to apply and tune a simple transition such as a Cross Dissolve

                                   

                                  Take a look

                                   

                                  http://tv.adobe.com/watch/learn-premiere-pro-cs5/gs06-applying-transitions-in-adobe-premie re-pro/

                                  • 15. Re: Is there a better Cross Dissolve method and associated problem?
                                    John Ratard Level 1

                                    Yes shooternz, you are cetainly correct if you have independent clips that have sufficient tails that were preplanned.  If you refer to my reply to Bill above, I am not spending my time with the continuous roll of video to preplan how I will deal with the video in clips.  I do not razor it apart in the dozens of clips, label it all in sequence, add in and out points to the lot with sufficient tails, then add them back to the time line.  I have not tried to see if the breaking into dozens of clips method would be faster.  In the final analysis, it depends on how often the tails are needed so it is difficult to say in any video which method would be faster in total.  However, the various methods covered in this post certainly work and in certain cases one may be better than another.  The method I have been using is over 10 years old showing how I tend to be a creature of habit.

                                     

                                    I will not be using my method of habit in the future since sliding the beginning and end of clips in the Effects tab window to get tails is faster than razor and ripple delete.  There does not appear to be any ripple deleting necessary when spaces are left with shortened clips in the time line.

                                     

                                    Thank you all so much for your help.  This post has recapped the old and the new from manual movie film to digital video techniques.  It also tells me I need to carefully study video editing terms and acronyms so I get them right if that is possible with the enormous amount of information that continually updates me on the Internet.  Most writers used to identify the acronyms in total at the beginning of every article. Sadly this appears to be fading so communication becomes more difficult.

                                    • 16. Re: Is there a better Cross Dissolve method and associated problem?
                                      John Ratard Level 1

                                      One other point that would save enormous amounts of time.  Does anyone know if the Effects tab method can be saved as a macro i.e. the sequence of steps.  What precisely is saved with the new developments in Premier Pro when the Effects tab is used for Cross Dissolves and the Cross Dissolve Effect is right clicked to save as default?

                                      • 17. Re: Is there a better Cross Dissolve method and associated problem?
                                        shooternz Level 6

                                        Yes shooternz, you are cetainly correct if you have independent clips that have sufficient tails that were preplanned.  If you refer to my reply to Bill above, I am not spending my time with the continuous roll of video to preplan how I will deal with the video in clips.  I do not razor it apart in the dozens of clips, label it all in sequence, add in and out points to the lot with sufficient tails, then add them back to the time line.  I have not tried to see if the breaking into dozens of clips method would be faster.

                                        Just FWIW ( and then I will let it go). Its nothing to do with having separate clips.

                                         

                                        Here is how I  would edit from a single long source clip.

                                         

                                        Firstly I would not break it down to "preplanned" clips.

                                        I place the source clip in the source monitor.

                                        Enter an IN and and OUT points (using keyboard shortcuts).

                                         

                                        I then INSERT or OVERLAY it to a targeted track in the sequence ( using keyboard shortcuts).  These clips will automatically have handles ready for a transition if required.  Obviously when setting an IN or OUT point one chooses those points knowing if the shot has enough frames either side of the points

                                         

                                         

                                        BTW - Effects on any clip can be copied directly to any other clip.  No need for a macro

                                        • 18. Re: Is there a better Cross Dissolve method and associated problem?
                                          John Ratard Level 1

                                          BTW - Effects on any clip can be copied directly to any other clip.  No need for a macro.

                                           

                                          I have not tried to see if actions outside the standard Effects with check boxes are able to be copied from clip to clip.  The double click of a Cross Dissolve takes me to a specific dialog box where actions apart from clicking check boxes can be taken in the Effects panel.  My meaning was the steps I would take in this Effects panel as a macro and wondering if they can be saved as a default.  No need to copy just apply my default Cross Dissolve to the center of any razor point.

                                           

                                          Thanks for clarifying the Source short cuts.  I wish I could remember all the keyboard shortcuts for all my applications so I have gone back to the mouse in most cases. 

                                          • 19. Re: Is there a better Cross Dissolve method and associated problem?
                                            John Ratard Level 1

                                            After trying all the suggestions I have to apologise for my reply #13 with steps in the Effects Control tab.  I have not managed to successfully reproduce it.  Perhaps there were tails on the clips I used.  In any case, I have settled on the following that is faster and is applied in the time line:

                                             

                                            - razor the video in the time line at the point of application of the Cross Dissolve.

                                            - drag the Cross Dissolve from the Effects tab to the center of the razor point.

                                            - use the default or adjust the duration in the Effects Control tab.

                                            - with the Ripple Edit Tool, slide the right clip from the right side of the Cross Dissolve edge on the time line to the razor point.

                                            - do the same on the left side of the Cross Dissolve for the left clip on the time line to the razor point.

                                             

                                            Its done.

                                             

                                            I had a mixture of clips in the left clip I created so I had to group them first.  I have not found a problem with this so far.

                                            • 20. Re: Is there a better Cross Dissolve method and associated problem?
                                              shooternz Level 6

                                              - with the Ripple Edit Tool, slide the right clip from the right side of the Cross Dissolve edge on the time line to the razor point.

                                              - do the same on the left side of the Cross Dissolve for the left clip on the time line to the razor point.

                                               

                                              I have no idea why you do this!!!! 

                                              (are you paid by the hour?)

                                              • 21. Re: Is there a better Cross Dissolve method and associated problem?
                                                SFL46 Level 3

                                                I share the puzzlement of some of my fellow posters--WHY? 

                                                 

                                                I don't suggest that my approach is the best, but it works for me. 

                                                 

                                                I believe that placing a long clip on the timeline and then razoring it to create subclips so that you can apply dissolves to is highly inefficient. 

                                                 

                                                When you capture/import video, the fist step is to load it into the source monitor--not the timeline.

                                                 

                                                Using the source monitor tools, go through the video, and using the clip in and clip out tools, create subclips of the portions that you want to use in the timeline.  I don't create a masterclip as this would have the clip-in and clip-out as its physical start and end--no leader or tails.  the subclip in and out points are simply pointers to the larger clip such that, with the exception of the first and last subclip, you have the whole video as leader and tails.  Make very rough edits at this point.  Once you set the in and out on a subclip, simply use the insert button to place it on the timeline.  Do this until you have all the clips you want on the timeline.  (You will note that each of these subclips will also show in the project window.)  Now ignore the source monitor and start trimming the rough cut clips on the timeline as you desire.  Then place the dissolve you want.

                                                 

                                                One very important caution.  Do not under any circumstance delete the main video icon from the project window until you are completely done with the project and rendered or exported it out.  Remember that I said the subclips are only pointers to the large clip; delete the large clip and the pointers go away.

                                                • 22. Re: Is there a better Cross Dissolve method and associated problem?
                                                  needles27 Level 3

                                                  I guess everyone finds a way that works for them! 

                                                  To me, this sounds like a Rube Goldberg machine that makes the most basic editing technique into a complicated workflow.  I hope he doesn't have clients looking over his shoulder... 

                                                  • 23. Re: Is there a better Cross Dissolve method and associated problem?
                                                    John Ratard Level 1

                                                    Apologies for missing steps in my explanations.  Yes, I always enter my video into the Source Monitor before inserting into the timeline.  You are certainly correct that if I had time with all the projects I am involved with I would do all the planning you recommend.  I am also presently involved in an electronics surface mount design and construction for a stereo equalizer, in multimedia and general consulting, all the maintenance work in an old house, and travel frequently.  I work a little here and there in Premier Pro.  Some of my videos are an hour long.  I need to find methods that save me time in the way I work.  I have no idea how many Cross Dissolves I need to do in the video, and where, since I create as I go along to do the best I can on the fly.

                                                     

                                                    I hear you all and your points are valid.  My intent in this post was to get as many ideas as I can to find the method that saves time for my way of fitting everything in. 

                                                    • 24. Re: Is there a better Cross Dissolve method and associated problem?
                                                      Absoflan

                                                      Okay, you want an idea? You are trying to edit one long video clip, right? And the frames between the cuts, the edits, are not enough handles to keep the transition from repeating frames you don't want, if I am understanding you correctly. Have you tried layering your clips? I have a picture to show what I mean.Example01.jpg

                                                      Alternate your clips and put the transitions on the clips in the top track. Overlap the top clip over the bottom to the duration of the transition. Its a little more work than just dropping a transition between clips, but this way you can transition on your cuts, with no worry about extra material (or handles), and no repeating frames. Plus you can see exactly where the transition affects your clips, no matter how long you want to make the transition. Sort of like Premiere's old A/B editing timeline. Hope this helps.

                                                      1 person found this helpful
                                                      • 25. Re: Is there a better Cross Dissolve method and associated problem?
                                                        John Ratard Level 1

                                                        Thank you.  Another good input that I will add to my list of transistion methods.  I appreciate all the inputs.

                                                         

                                                        It strikes me that several methods of doing the same thing can be of benefit.  I will try them from time to time to see which works best in a particular situation.  At least I am past the creature of habit problem.  I would like to convince the Source Monitor and tails enthusiasts that I do use the in and out points in the Source Monitor for tails when I have short videos to deal with.  Some takes are not long enough to waste frames on tails so I lengthen the clips using Speed/Duration in the timeline if the slower motion is not obvious.  If the take is too jerky I also use Speed/Duration on steadier frames within the clip.  I can use mocha to remove distant people if they are the obvious problem.