1 2 Previous Next 45 Replies Latest reply on Feb 13, 2012 3:02 PM by Lundberg02

    Adobe RGB Monitor Problem

    fabiansebastian

      I own a dell 2408wfp monitor that works with adobe rgb. photoshop seems to realize that and automatically adjusts the preview colors of srgb images so that it "matches" the srgb color settings. when exporting the image and previewing them in a browser the colors are - of course - way more intense, i guess that's because the browser dosn't render them for an adobe rgb monitor. the problem: the preview in photoshop on my adobe rgb monitor dosn't look nearly like the result on a normal srgb display. colors are just wrong. i get the best (=best matching) results when lowering the color intensity in the monitor settings and look at the result in my browser.

       

      is there any way to disable the "monitor profile" in photoshop, so that it just displays the colors "wrong"/too intense?

      thx for your help!

        • 1. Re: Adobe RGB Monitor Problem
          Mylenium Most Valuable Participant

          You need to read up on color management and wht the proof preview is for... That aside, the web runs on standard RGB, not Adobe RGB. Adjusting your image to look pretty on your screen therefore almost is inevitably bound to cause colro discrepancies elsewhere...

           

          Mylenium

          1 person found this helpful
          • 2. Re: Adobe RGB Monitor Problem
            Noel Carboni Level 8

            Yes, you can do what you want.  Though the colors won't be accurate you can set it up so that sRGB images are displayed consistently as with non- or partially-color-managed apps.

             

            But you don't set the monitor profile association through Photoshop.  You do it through the operating system...

             

            In Vista and Windows 7:

             

            • Click Start, then type color management into the search box. 
            • When Color Management comes up, click it.
            • Click the Devices tab.
            • Choose [ ] Use My Settings.
            • Add the sRGB IEC61966-2.1 profile to the list and make it the (default).

             

            You might also find it helpful, if the monitor offers such functionality, to set it to specifically emulate sRGB.  Some monitors offer this functionality.

             

            When you gain a greater understanding of how color-management works, and want more accurate color that you can trust from your monitor, then you may want to invest in a color measurement device with which you can calibrate/profile your system.

             

            -Noel

            • 3. Re: Adobe RGB Monitor Problem
              fabiansebastian Level 1

              @mylenium that't, what i was trying to say. i don't want the colors to look pretty on my lcd, i wan't them to look 'wrong' (too intense) on my adobe rgb screen. lowering the color intensity in the monitor setup, i then get a quite usable preview of the image that 'equals' a srgb display/the srgb web colors.

               

              thx for the proof preview tip, i think that's the feature i was searching for!

              • 4. Re: Adobe RGB Monitor Problem
                fabiansebastian Level 1

                @noel thanks man, thats exactly what i was searching for!

                oh and: the monitor offers an srgb mode, but its quite horrible... so i'm going to work with the windows color management.

                greetings form germany, fabian

                • 5. Re: Adobe RGB Monitor Problem
                  gator soup Level 4

                  i'm going to speculate 1) you want photoshop to display your images 'accurately' without dumbing down your wide-gamut monitor to emulate the sRGB gamut, and (2) the problem is Windows Explorer and your web browsers are dispaying sRGB source images too intense?

                   

                  with a wide-gamut monitor space, there's not much you can do about the sRGB over saturation in windows Explorer or on the Internet...but setting Firefox "Full Color Management" Value 1 can eliminate the problem on the web (and display the same as Photoshop)

                   

                  see the end of this thread:

                  http://forums.adobe.com/thread/958224?start=50&tstart=90

                  1 person found this helpful
                  • 6. Re: Adobe RGB Monitor Problem
                    fabiansebastian Level 1

                    @gator soup

                    my problem isn't firefox not using color management, but photoshop using it. the color managed image looks worse than the firefox-render without color management. maybe i could search for a srgb color management preset for my monitor and than do it your way - till then i'm trying out the no-color-management thing...

                    • 7. Re: Adobe RGB Monitor Problem
                      D Fosse Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                      You're not taking advantage of the wide gamut anyway, so it seems to me the only sensible thing for you is to use the monitor's sRGB preset. This way it will behave just like any other standard monitor.

                       

                      It's right there in the OSD menus.

                       

                      But that is a very good monitor, so why not take full advantage of it? All you need is a monitor profile that accurately describes the monitor's native color space. If you calibrate and profile it, that's what you get. Then both Photoshop and Firefox will use the profile to display correctly (and if you configure Firefox as per above it will also display untagged images correctly - i.e. as sRGB).

                       

                      There's really no reason to dumb that monitor down.

                      • 8. Re: Adobe RGB Monitor Problem
                        Noel Carboni Level 8

                        fabiansebastian wrote:

                         

                        the color managed image looks worse than the firefox-render without color management

                         

                        I think perhaps it would be wise to define "worse" a little more thoroughly here...

                         

                        The sRGB profile has a smaller gamut, and thus you will see less saturated color with it.  Is a less color-saturated image what you mean by "worse"?  Asked another way, do you consider more brightly colored images "better"?

                         

                        The sRGB gamut is by definition only going to be able to deliver images with less maximum saturation than a wider gamut.

                         

                        But here's the important part:

                         

                        If you design images using an oversaturated display, which is what you'll see on a monitor that actually has a wider gamut than the profile being used to prepare images for it, then you risk your images coming out UNDERsaturated on properly set up systems when you print them, send them off, or publish them on the web.

                         

                        No, don't get me wrong - the viewing of oversaturated images may all be acceptable to you, so that you can enjoy the convenience of more applications matching their colors more of the time on your system.  But you should know what you're getting into.

                         

                        -Noel

                        • 9. Re: Adobe RGB Monitor Problem
                          Lundberg02 Level 3

                          Until the OP understands color management(does anyone?) everything he does will be wrong.

                          • 10. Re: Adobe RGB Monitor Problem
                            Noel Carboni Level 8

                            Lundberg02 wrote:

                             

                            understands color management(does anyone?).

                             

                            Yes.

                             

                            -Noel

                            • 11. Re: Adobe RGB Monitor Problem
                              Trevor.Dennis Adobe Community Professional (Moderator)

                              Lundberg02 wrote:

                               

                              Until the OP understands color management(does anyone?) everything he does will be wrong.

                               

                              The Competition Secretary in our Camera Club is a colour management pedant, and insists that we only use one particular laptop which is calibrated with the club's projector.  The colour and saturation is so obviously wrong, but he hangs on agressively, and our projected images look terrible   He has also tried to set up other people's monitors, and left them in a real mess saying there must be something wrong with the monitor!!!  

                               

                              It reminds of an aquaintance of mine from years back who was a colour television engineer.  When we visited his house their TV looked dreadful, but he used to get really upset if we told him, because 'he was a TV engineer'.  Oh how we laughed when his wife eventually told us he was badly colour blind! 

                               

                              I like to Keep It Simple Stupid.  A little Huey Pro looks after my monitors, and I print with Canon's EasyPhotoPrint Pro when using my Pixma 9000.  It just works, and gets it right evry time.  When I think back to the battles I have had with printers over the years, I feel thankful for an easy answer.

                               

                              Incidentally, my monitors needed very little correction on my old system with a 2Gb Radeon 4850.  My new box has a GTX 570 and both of my monitors had a distinct green tint before calibration.

                              • 12. Re: Adobe RGB Monitor Problem
                                Lundberg02 Level 3

                                Yeah, I had a work buddy who was an audio freak and spent ten thousand

                                on a stereo system. He suggested I bring over my favorite records and

                                listen to them on a really good system. So I did and they sounded

                                terrible. It seemed like the instruments in the midtones, like the

                                trombones, were chasing each other around the room. I eventually

                                discovered that he had one set of speakers hooked up in reverse. I later

                                found he was partially deaf. I never kidded him about it, though, he was

                                a really good guy and a great troubleshooter in circuits or electronic

                                systems, just not audio.

                                • 13. Re: Adobe RGB Monitor Problem
                                  fabiansebastian Level 1

                                  @Noel No with 'worse' i don't mean less saturated - i'm not stupid and of course the colors are over-saturated without color management. the thing is: the monitor internal srgb mode is terrible (and no, it's not the saturation i'm talking about). Colors just don't match, the image is way too green and colors just don't look like they should. it actually is so terrible, that using no color management on adobe rgb mode and lowering the saturation in the monitor setting is closer to the look of my other (srgb) monitors and other comuters/laptops, than using the srgb mode.

                                   

                                  => in this case:

                                  adobe rgb + no color management + lowered saturation  >  adobe rgb + color management  >  srgb mode

                                   

                                  i really didn't want to start the whole color management discussion, because i know how color management works. i just wanted to try out how the image looks without color management and lowered saturation. thats all. so thx for your help noel, this case is closed!

                                  • 14. Re: Adobe RGB Monitor Problem
                                    Lundberg02 Level 3

                                    You must have a calibrated monitor or you don't know what you have. You

                                    can't just hack things.

                                    I'm using the Dell factory cal on my 2320 (wider than sRGB but not as

                                    wide as Adobe RGB) and it's ok for now but I am going to calibrate it in

                                    order to get the delta e more reasonable if possible. Then I will match

                                    my prints to my screen under full spectrum lighting and verify. I use

                                    9300K and 1.8 gamma in order to match paper and this has always been right.

                                    • 15. Re: Adobe RGB Monitor Problem
                                      D Fosse Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                      fabiansebastian wrote:

                                       

                                      this case is closed

                                      Well, that's your call, but if you know how color management works you shouldn't be surprised when people come along to tell you that there are in fact better ways to deal with this.

                                       

                                      With proper color management all around this whole "problem" of yours simply goes away. Just so we're clear on that. All you need to do is pick software that actually is color managed and set it up correctly.

                                      • 16. Re: Adobe RGB Monitor Problem
                                        Noel Carboni Level 8

                                        fabiansebastian wrote:

                                         

                                        @Noel No with 'worse' i don't mean less saturated - i'm not stupid

                                         

                                        I'm very sorry if you took that implication from my comment - it was not at all what I meant.  But many people, probably because of aggressive marketing and sales pitches being constantly hammered into our heads, feel that "brighter, more vivid color" is "better".

                                         

                                        -Noel

                                        • 17. Re: Adobe RGB Monitor Problem
                                          fabiansebastian Level 1

                                          No problem, i appreciate your help.

                                          Oh and: I was able to get hold of a monitor calibration device for a view days... so maby i can get the srgb profile of my monitor fixed - because i really don't need the adobe rgb colors.

                                          • 18. Re: Adobe RGB Monitor Problem
                                            Lundberg02 Level 3

                                            This just demonstrates that you still don't understand the concept .

                                            You calibrate your monitor so that it properly interprets the

                                            information sent to it. This is "device dependent". It means that it

                                            knows how to present "device independent" color spaces like sRGB, no

                                            matter how limited they are.

                                            You have to understand the concepts or everything you do will be wrong

                                            and can't be repurposed. Just hacking around and making something look

                                            right for one case is not color management. Read. Understand. See.

                                            • 19. Re: Adobe RGB Monitor Problem
                                              fabiansebastian Level 1

                                              You calibrate your monitor so that it properly interprets the

                                              information sent to it.

                                              Yes, thats what I'm trying to do. Of course it's device dependent, thats what color management does, isn't it?!

                                               

                                              It means that it knows how to present "device independent" color spaces like sRGB

                                              Exactly, that's what I was thinking...

                                               

                                              I don't no much about color management - all i know about it i learnd within a 1h lecture - but i really understand those basics. what made you think i don't?

                                               

                                              my plan:

                                              - using the display srgb mode (because i neither need nor want adobe rgb - mainly because sadly many applications don't work with color management and therefore show over-saturated colors)

                                              - calibrating the monitor so that it interprets all 'device independent' color profiles right

                                               

                                              Anything wrong about that?

                                              • 20. Re: Adobe RGB Monitor Problem
                                                Noel Carboni Level 8

                                                fabiansebastian wrote:


                                                Anything wrong about that?

                                                 

                                                Nothing in the world wrong with that, if the color accuracy meets your needs.

                                                 

                                                It just so happens to be exactly how I've set up my own system, and there are indeed numerous advantages to it.  I have set both my monitor profiles to sRGB and use the ATI Catalyst feature to load the calibration presets required to get them to closely emulate an sRGB response.

                                                 

                                                -Noel

                                                • 21. Re: Adobe RGB Monitor Problem
                                                  Lundberg02 Level 3

                                                  Calibrate. Then screw around.

                                                  • 22. Re: Adobe RGB Monitor Problem
                                                    Noel Carboni Level 8

                                                    Was that supposed to be a helpful comment?

                                                     

                                                    Try to understand that people who might just know more than you do could be involved in the conversation.

                                                     

                                                    -Noel

                                                    • 23. Re: Adobe RGB Monitor Problem
                                                      Trevor.Dennis Adobe Community Professional (Moderator)

                                                      We are not worthy

                                                       

                                                      Noel.jpg

                                                      • 24. Re: Adobe RGB Monitor Problem
                                                        Noel Carboni Level 8

                                                        Oh, now THAT's surely going to calm things down. 

                                                         

                                                        The more I learn the more I realize how little I know.  I just don't react well to people who want to "set the rules".  I'm sorry; ignore me please.

                                                         

                                                        -Noel

                                                        • 25. Re: Adobe RGB Monitor Problem
                                                          Trevor.Dennis Adobe Community Professional (Moderator)

                                                          ROTFLMO   Sorry Noel.   Think of it as character building.   I am a complusive Photoshop doodler and can't help myself.

                                                          • 26. Re: Adobe RGB Monitor Problem
                                                            Lundberg02 Level 3

                                                            The emperor has no clothes.

                                                            • 27. Re: Adobe RGB Monitor Problem
                                                              Trevor.Dennis Adobe Community Professional (Moderator)

                                                              Lundberg02 wrote:

                                                               

                                                              The emperor has no clothes.


                                                               

                                                              Hey!  That's not nice and not called for.  There's a world of difference between a good natured micky take, and snide remarks!   The cool thing would be for to delete your post, and I'll delete the Quote.  I'd delete the graphic if I still could.

                                                              • 28. Re: Adobe RGB Monitor Problem
                                                                PECourtejoie Adobe Community Professional

                                                                I can delete whathever posts are needed to cool things down. But to be fair, I need a consensus.

                                                                I think that Lundberg meant that Calibration is step number one to none in any color management issue.

                                                                It might be opening a can of worms, but I'm wondering if a thread to gather color management info/FAQ and fixes would be useful...

                                                                • 29. Re: Adobe RGB Monitor Problem
                                                                  Lundberg02 Level 3

                                                                  I totally agree.

                                                                  • 30. Re: Adobe RGB Monitor Problem
                                                                    D Fosse Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                                                    PECourtejoie wrote:


                                                                    It might be opening a can of worms, but I'm wondering if a thread to gather color management info/FAQ and fixes would be useful...

                                                                     

                                                                    That might be a good idea. I also think that the best way to deal with worms is to get them out of the can and into the open.

                                                                     

                                                                    In the "other" thread I asked why color management discussions tended to catch fire at the slightest provocation. The subject is sufficiently complex, and at the same time sufficiently essential, to become a sort of watershed: those who "get it", and those who don't. So it very quickly becomes personal.

                                                                     

                                                                    But of course that is silly. Nobody "understands" color management completely - aside from the late Bruce Fraser, who made up his own color space because he wasn't happy with the existing ones. The rest of us all have something to learn, and if we all pool our resources this is a great place to do it.

                                                                     

                                                                    Lundberg, I know how you're thinking. It's very easy to pin the "ignorance" label to someone who actively advocates the use of sRGB as monitor profile, instead of doing it the "proper" way. It's exactly what an ignorant person would do, isn't it? I've been there myself. But in Noel's case it's anything but ignorance. He knows what he's looking at. He has to, he's building his own stuff with full color management.

                                                                     

                                                                    And sometimes full monitor calibration and profiling is simply overshooting the user's needs. We have all levels of users here, from the casual hobbyist to the professional power user. Let people find their own place, in their own time.

                                                                     

                                                                    The main thing is to always make informed decisions. Political correctness kills information, it so easily becomes an armor, a shield, to stop information.

                                                                     

                                                                    Peace.

                                                                    • 31. Re: Adobe RGB Monitor Problem
                                                                      PECourtejoie Adobe Community Professional

                                                                      And there are many sources with good info (Gator's site, Ian Lyons, etc.) There are some don't, some conflicting info, some workflow that require different solutions... And whole books written on the subject. (and a dedicated forum here: http://forums.adobe.com/community/design_development/color_management ) IMHO, a Photoshop FAQ shoudl be simpler than one that would be located in that forum. But making color management simple is a whole industry...

                                                                      • 32. Re: Adobe RGB Monitor Problem
                                                                        D Fosse Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                                                        Personally I'm a big fan of this one: http://www.adobepress.com/articles/article.asp?p=1315593

                                                                         

                                                                        Not because it tells you things you can't find elsewhere, but simply because it's well written, in a fluid and easy language. So much of this becomes a struggle to digest because of stiff and inflexible language. Nothing said about your suggestions above, mind you.

                                                                        • 33. Re: Adobe RGB Monitor Problem
                                                                          Noel Carboni Level 8

                                                                          Thanks Dag and others.  I apologize if I seemed frustrated, above, especially to Lundberg02 if he has taken any offense.  None was meant!

                                                                           

                                                                          Please permit me a bit of philosphizing for a moment...

                                                                           

                                                                          You may take all this with a grain of salt, or as the ravings of a madman.  It is in NO WAY intended to accuse or label anyone.  Instead I simply request you keep an open mind...

                                                                           

                                                                          1. I think the one thing that seems to apply stronger to the color-management realm than most others, for some reason, is that people who have found their footing initially believe that their way is the "best" (or sometimes "only") way to actually make color-management work, because it works for them, and because it was pretty difficult to reach this level initially.  Out of the goodness of their hearts they want to try to bring others to their level of understanding.  They simply have not realized yet that there are still higher levels of understanding.
                                                                          2. I only offer this, to those who think this way, because I have been there:  Your next level of understanding (and there always seem to be more levels) brings the realization that there is no "one" or "best" way to work - it depends on needs.  It is at this stage that you finally realize that all those settings and features represent either the minimum set (or possibly even still a subset) of all the controls REALLY needed to get things right, and that quite possibly others will want to choose different ones - and even different workflows - than you have chosen. It is at this level where one begins to see why what seemed like poor terminology at first was actually chosen.
                                                                          3. The next level beyond the above is a maturing of the understanding, over time, where one learns to sometimes change settings to meet changing needs, and one begins to actually exercise all the features and controls in daily operations to better meet his/her goals.  It is at this level that one finds oneself revisiting ideas tossed out early on as "invalid" or "wrong", such as setting up a system to use a standard profile instead of a custom one.  This is the level where one starts to understand how half-baked the whole system of color-management is, taking into account the OSs, browser and the web, and things beyond just the color-managed apps you use, because of its history.
                                                                          4. The next evolutionary step - what has been referred-to above as the "Fraser" level - finds one developing one's own custom profiles, such as linear (gamma 1.0) working spaces or those with special gamuts, to suit particular needs not covered by what's already available.  It is at this level that one can develop properly color-managed software, and innovate in the color-management realm (e.g., marry color-management into OpenGL, which has none).
                                                                          5. Is there a next level?  I haven't reached it, but I believe there must be one.  I've not stopped learning.

                                                                           

                                                                          At all levels, people at lower levels will tend to think any advice you may give is suspect, or outright wrong.  Just try to be tolerant - one day they'll understand too.

                                                                           

                                                                          My best advice:

                                                                           

                                                                          Color-management is no more important than, say, Angry Birds.  It's just stuff that happens on a computer.  So don't take it too seriously and try not to get upset over it.  And keep climbing the steps! 

                                                                           

                                                                          -Noel

                                                                          • 34. Re: Adobe RGB Monitor Problem
                                                                            Hudechrome Level 2

                                                                            Q: When is a standard not a standard?

                                                                            A: When there is more than one.

                                                                             

                                                                            And generating some sort of standard based on what you like is so far off point as to not even be worth a rational discussion. What is going on here? Seriously, I cannot even begin to wrap my brain around it.

                                                                             

                                                                            Angry Birds? If it isn't important, why is anyone here, discussing this? Go to your local electronics dealer, grab the monitor that looks the prettiest to you, take it home and shut up.

                                                                             

                                                                            And may the force be with you.

                                                                            • 35. Re: Adobe RGB Monitor Problem
                                                                              Noel Carboni Level 8

                                                                              Hudechrome wrote:

                                                                               

                                                                              ...take it home and shut up.

                                                                               

                                                                              That may actually be the proper advice for some folks.  But my point is that there's not just an "on" or "off" position to the switch, Lawrence!  I'm not sure whether you're implying something greater when you use the term "standard", but I don't recall any debate over any particular "standard" here.  We're talking about equipment and software and settings and workflow here.

                                                                               

                                                                              Your comment snapped into my mind the scene from the film Phenomenon where main character George (John Travolta) is furiously digging in his garden, frustratated over his (and the world's) limitations, when suddenly he looks up, sees the trees gently swaying in the wind, and reaches a new level of understanding - after which a state of supreme calm comes over him... 

                                                                               

                                                                              -Noel

                                                                              • 36. Re: Adobe RGB Monitor Problem
                                                                                Hudechrome Level 2

                                                                                That's called "Enlightenment" See the light.

                                                                                 

                                                                                That's where I am going. Seeing the light. But more than that, when I am talking about a particular light and demonstrating it, standing behind me is a Standard light to which all can refer to verify my results and assertions.

                                                                                 

                                                                                The standard to which I refer is that which sets the calibration parameters for the device I am using to then calibrate my display.  My results can be traced back to that standard, and so can yours. If we are using devices that use the same reference.

                                                                                 

                                                                                Example: White Point. What if all that is said is my white point is set, but one doesn't know what the white point is? 5000K? 6500K? 9300K? There would be chaos trying to help someone that didn't know what the numbers were.

                                                                                 

                                                                                And what is meant by "K"? Now, there is where the standard shows up. Without knowing that bit of knowledge, we may still not have a clue.

                                                                                 

                                                                                So there is a huge difference between  a calibrated color space that is referenced as having a White Point of 6500K, a gamma of 2.2 and a brightness of 100 cd/m^2 and "I have my color space set to sRGB".

                                                                                 

                                                                                I suspect that if Bruce Fraser were alive and asked "Do you calibrate your display using a hardware device? he would say yes, and further, I also believe that if you approached him with a problem getting the right color he would ask you the same question.

                                                                                 

                                                                                From this point on, we can finesse to our heart's content. I happen to use a curious color space known as Linear_RIMM-RGB_v4, for special occasions. Should I use that for my monitor calibration? How about the profile for my favorite printing paper on the Epson 3800?

                                                                                 

                                                                                Where does it stop?

                                                                                 

                                                                                Buying a hardware calibrator is akin to buying  a great lens for a great camera. With both, you know what you are getting, within the limits of the devices themselves.

                                                                                • 37. Re: Adobe RGB Monitor Problem
                                                                                  Hudechrome Level 2

                                                                                  Oh, and for those who are at Color 101, take a look at this site:

                                                                                   

                                                                                  http://www.xrite.com/home.aspx

                                                                                   

                                                                                  Check out the training available.

                                                                                   

                                                                                  Noel, look at the home page. They sell a device called NetProfiler 3.0. It speaks legions more to what speak.

                                                                                  • 38. Re: Adobe RGB Monitor Problem
                                                                                    Noel Carboni Level 8

                                                                                    "Do you calibrate your display?" isn't complete terminology by the way.  There are actually multiple components to what you're implying in common word use, as concerns color-management:  "Calibration" and "profiling".  In one particular use of the word, I calibrate my displays to produce expected results using special presets developed and saved in the ATI Catalyst tool (which is by no means a typical way to do it).  "Calibration" in this usage generally means getting the gamma response right, and "profiling" is the "fine tuning" so that (courtesy a digital transform) each displayed color is close to the intended color.

                                                                                     

                                                                                    One problem with color-management is that it WILL NOT stand for being oversimplified, and another is that much of the terminology has multiple meanings - which says that a lot of context is required while discussing it.  Trying to get by without defining the context and being explicit with the terms is akin to trying to push a car uphill with cooked noodles.  Hasn't it become clear yet that even bright people who "get it" have difficulty discussing it?

                                                                                     

                                                                                    The best advice for anyone is to go learn more, not be intimidated by bullies who want to cut to the chase and make you to do things their way, and ESPECIALLY not to take ANYTHING too seriously.    Over and out.

                                                                                     

                                                                                    -Noel

                                                                                    • 39. Re: Adobe RGB Monitor Problem
                                                                                      Hudechrome Level 2

                                                                                      As you know, I do know that the complete description is "Calibrate and Profile". I chose to shorten it because if you use a calibration/profiling tool, it does it all during the process. We can also say, instead of calibrate or calibrate and profile, to condition the monitor to provide the WYSIWYG experience.

                                                                                       

                                                                                      To be completely clear, the calibration part is manual and depends on how much access the user has to basic controls. The software guides you through it.

                                                                                       

                                                                                      In any case, it is a crap shoot to simply throw a color space at it. Maybe it will work, but for many, likely to cause even more problems.

                                                                                       

                                                                                      As for bright people not getting it, yep, I well understand. It's times like this in other engineering aspects, I wonder "am I slipping or is he?" I am constantly on guard, and is why I recommend the X-Rite site for basic education. They are good at what they do.

                                                                                       

                                                                                      It's like this:

                                                                                      In the beginning, a mountain is a mountan, a tree is a tree, a cloud, a cloud

                                                                                      Then I grew up and a mountain became more than a mountain, a tree more than a tree, and a cloud more than a cloud.

                                                                                      Now I am older and wiser and  a mountain is again a mountain....

                                                                                       

                                                                                      With due respect to Tavolta's George!

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