8 Replies Latest reply on Feb 23, 2012 2:46 PM by the_wine_snob

    why different AVI container readings in GSpot, same Import procedure

    head spin Level 1

      I don't understand a whole lot about GSpot. Just enough to see TFF or BFF (top or bottom field first), 4:3 or 16:9 video, and interlaced or not. I have PrE7 and PrE9 and I never noticed the different container readings until I started importing into PrE9. I would like to be able to interpret the readings in the container window, and was hoping you guys can shed some light on this. I am enclosing a jpeg which I hope is legible.

       

      I have always had (unless i dont remember correctly), the 5 part AVI container when using PrE7 import. Now that I am using Pre9, I seem to get a 5 part on longer imports, and a 2 part with a breakdown of stuff on shorter imports. On occasion I have seen a 4 part but that seems rare. Anyway, what should I be looking for in the container window that might cause problems? In the jpeg the 5 part is from an hour import and the 2 part is from a 300MB import. I should say that I am using the Pyro AV Link and component video from my vcr to the Pyro. My imports are from vhs tapes.

      Both AVI Containers.JPG

      Also, below is user data whatever that means. Still working to get pics more legible, but hopefully this is legible enough to diagnose.

      Thanks

        • 1. Re: why different AVI container readings in GSpot, same Import procedure
          the_wine_snob Level 9

          When you say 3-part, 4-part and 5-part, are you referring to perhaps the Clips that are generated with Scene Detect ON, or something else totally different?

           

          Good luck,

           

          Hunt

          • 2. Re: why different AVI container readings in GSpot, same Import procedure
            head spin Level 1

            In the New Project dialog box which opens when PrE opens, instead of saving to the default documents location I save everything to one folder. Example: My Videos>Adobe Premiere Elements 9 Projects>New Folder (name of my project). Because I selected the capture video to also be in this folder, it shows up as AVI clips. That way if I screw up a project to bad, I can simply pull the video out (move to a new folder, whatever name I choose), delete the project, and start over. Then in the new redo project, I just import the video I saved from the new folder.

             

            It is my understanding that this original AVI clip is not altered by any changes I make in PrE while I am working on it (which seems to be the case). I have all AutoAnalyzer stuff deselected, and in the capture screen (Get Media>DV Camcorder)  I do not use Split Scenes or Smart Tagging. Only Capture to Timeline. PrE7 user guide says split scenes and smart tagging (if these have been selected) do not occur until after capture is complete. Also Split Scenes must be selected in order to use Scene Detect. Scene detect by timecode does not work with analog to DV. Not sure how Scene detect by content works, but still happens after capture is complete. I guess in the program itself, but does not alter the original video.

             

            I am sure I over explained things, but this is how I comprehend things so far. If I were working with video from my Sony HD Camcorder instead of VHS tapes it would be different.

             

            Thanks

            • 3. Re: why different AVI container readings in GSpot, same Import procedure
              head spin Level 1

              Sorry, forgot to clarify. I am speaking only of the original AVI clips from any project capture when I am wondering why the difference in the container window of GSpot.

              • 4. Re: why different AVI container readings in GSpot, same Import procedure
                the_wine_snob Level 9

                If you are doing a Capture from a miniDV tape camera, hooked to the computer via FireWire, and through PrE, then there should be zero difference in the container, or the CODEC, which should be MS DV/DVC.

                 

                Are you doing the Capture in PrE, from miniDV tape, over FireWire?

                 

                Good luck,

                 

                Hunt

                • 5. Re: why different AVI container readings in GSpot, same Import procedure
                  head spin Level 1

                  Thanks Bill,

                  Through firewire, and as I mentioned in my original post, VHS VCR through component video through Pyro. I think I am getting sidetracked. What I was wondering is, what do the readings in the container mean in layman terms, and is it something to be concerned about? Is it something PrE will have trouble with in the program, and affect the quality of the video? Sorry it's not a better pic.

                  • 6. Re: why different AVI container readings in GSpot, same Import procedure
                    the_wine_snob Level 9

                    If the workflow is the same, the Project, into which the material is being Captured, then the Captured files should be the exact same. Not sure why you are getting those differences. DV-AVI is pretty straightforward, with but two variables: NTSC vs PAL (is set by the Project), and then Widescreen 16:9 vs Standard 4:3. The rest is included in the MS DV/DVC CODEC, within that very specific AVI format.

                     

                    Sorry that I do not have even a clue, why there would be differences, so long as the workflow is constant.

                     

                    Now, though it's a great little program, I do see G-Spot get a bit confused, from time to time, and probably rely more on MediaInfo (similar, though different program).

                     

                    Hunt

                    • 7. Re: why different AVI container readings in GSpot, same Import procedure
                      head spin Level 1

                      Bill,

                      This container information was making me buggy, so I found out some additional information which others might be interested in. I googled Open DML and found out some interesting stuff of which I may not be totally accurate but makes sense to me at this point. In my case I am using AVI in the container. As I said this is from GSpot.

                       

                      The 1st lline says DV Type 2 AVI (or Type 1 AVI)

                      The 2nd line may say Open DML (AVI v 1.0) or (AVI v 2.0) or Multipart Open DML AVI (x parts) The reasoning for these variations has to do with the original size limitations on AVI of several years back and gives readings based on the size of the AVI file. It appears that as the file sizes grow (xx MB or GB?) the readings Gspot gives change to AVI v1.0 to AVI v 2.0 to Multipart Open DML. I have some avi clips that are small and some that are 20 GB as I would just run in a bunch of video in one shot instead of smaller clips. I haven't figured out when GSpot makes the determination as to what to label things, but makes more sense now. (A little bit)

                       

                      The original file size before Open DML as I understand it was 2 GB. (people were not thinking computers were going to advance much I guess) Then as file sizes grew larger programs had to be adapted to go over the 2 GB limit. As I was Googling I found that some people were having problems with Open DML, and were having to do conversions outside their video programs before being able to use the video. Most newer video programs can handle the large file sizes I guess, But if people are having problems might be worth doing the GSpot analysis.

                       

                      If someone can elaborate on this and give a better analysis than this, please do. I found a lot of posts (when I Googled Open DML) actually in Adobe forums where people were trying to decipher problems and Open DML was discussed but I don't know if there were solutions. (got tired of reading)

                      • 8. Re: why different AVI container readings in GSpot, same Import procedure
                        the_wine_snob Level 9

                        Maybe a little background will be useful, or at least might explain some file size limitations of not that long ago. Until NTSF, with FAT-32 formatting, files could not exceed ~ 4GB. With FAT-16 (long gone), I believe that the file size limit was ~ 2GB. With NTSF, there is no real limit to the file sizes. I have many Uncompressed AVI files, that in the 1TB range.

                         

                        Now, DV-AVI Type 1's did have a file size limit, but I cannot recall exactly what that was. With DV-AVI Type II, that limit was greatly expanded. There has to be a limit, but I have never reached it, even with 2.5 hour Timelines.

                         

                        Now, you have educated me a bit, on the Open DML. Thanks for that.

                         

                        Good luck,

                         

                        Hunt