15 Replies Latest reply on Feb 24, 2012 11:55 AM by Rallymax-forum

    Quicktime Gamma

    Richard M Knight Adobe Community Professional & MVP

      I have seen mentioned several time in this forum a problem with the gamma using QuickTime, is this only a player problem or does this issue exist if you use QuickTime mov. exports?

       

      Richard Knight

        • 1. Re: Quicktime Gamma
          the_wine_snob Level 9

          Not sure if this THREAD is what you are looking for, as it is a bit older now, but might be helpful.

           

          Good luck,

           

          Hunt

          • 2. Re: Quicktime Gamma
            Ann Bens Adobe Community Professional & MVP

            It is a well known issue: its the player.

            Why do not you use the VLC player is plays everything without any issue, that is if you are on a pc.

            • 3. Re: Quicktime Gamma
              Jim_Simon Level 8

              VLC is also available for both Mac and Linux.

              • 4. Re: Quicktime Gamma
                AtonMusic Level 2

                Ann Bens wrote:

                 

                It is a well known issue: its the player.

                Why do not you use the VLC player is plays everything without any issue, that is if you are on a pc.

                Perhaps because most Mac users will be watching the editors film via the Quicktime player.... Hence it HAS to look right there.

                 

                I find it to be a huge problem that is NOT to be taken likely. You sit and grade for hours enoying your work in the editor i.e. AE. Then you export it out and the gamma curve is completely different in the QuickTime player. This sucks totally.

                 

                Whether this is Apples or Adobes fault... I dont know. But it is a major flaw and a true wonder to me why it is still around after all those years.

                Stupid comes to mind here

                • 5. Re: Quicktime Gamma
                  Harm Millaard Level 7

                  Yeah, that's Apple.

                  • 6. Re: Quicktime Gamma
                    Richard M Knight Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                    Back to my original question, is this only a Player function or does it affect anything exported using a Quicktime mov. wrapper.

                     

                    Richard Knight

                    • 7. Re: Quicktime Gamma
                      Jon Chappell Level 3

                      I think it's a mixture of both. If you tag the file with the correct color profile it should display correctly in QuickTime Player 7. (QuickTime Player X can be hit and miss because it ignores certain parts of the file and displays it how it "thinks" it should look.)

                      • 8. Re: Quicktime Gamma
                        AtonMusic Level 2

                        Richard M Knight wrote:

                         

                        Back to my original question, is this only a Player function or does it affect anything exported using a Quicktime mov. wrapper.

                         

                        Richard Knight

                        it DOES affect the exported material. And even if it did not, that would still leave your audience with a too light gamma curve. I do all my color grading in AE with a 0.85 GAMMA Curve as a top adjustment layer. That way I KNOW what it is going to look like with quicktime.

                         

                        I think it boils down to adobe NOT setting certain meta tags to the files on encode (export) I DONT have this problem when rendering out in FCPx.

                         

                        The problem also is dependent on the codec used in the quicktime container. I.e. Animation Codec does NOT look any different when being played back in QT10 whereas ProRes files look as if you added a 1.2 gamme curve to it. Other apps like MPEG Streamclips are having MAJOR issues when encoding to ProRes. When viewing THAT in the QT10 player it looks as if one had applied a 0.6 gamma curve to it...

                         

                        Quicktime SUCK big time. But it is the best we got... Just like Democracy !

                        • 9. Re: Quicktime Gamma
                          Jim_Simon Level 8

                          Quicktime SUCK big time. But it is the best we got

                           

                          That depends on how you define "we".  If you include editors as a whole, AVI is a better container.

                          • 10. Re: Quicktime Gamma
                            AtonMusic Level 2

                            Jim,

                             

                            with WE I meant Mac Users....

                            • 11. Re: Quicktime Gamma
                              Richard M Knight Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                              The reason I asked the question was because I am looking for a file format to master my projects to. The Avid DNxHD codec is often mentioned in this forum but this is only available (on the pc at least) in a QT wrapper. If I use this format will I be committing my masters to a file with incorrect gamma?

                               

                              Richard Knight

                              • 12. Re: Quicktime Gamma
                                Harm Millaard Level 7

                                Richard, have you considered uncompressed (takes huge amounts of space) or the visually lossless codecs like Lagarith or UT (free and decent space requirements)?

                                • 13. Re: Quicktime Gamma
                                  Richard M Knight Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                  Come 20 years down the road and I am editing on CS 15 will the Lagarith codec still be recognized, there's a good chance that Avid might be

                                  • 14. Re: Quicktime Gamma
                                    lasvideo Level 4

                                    +1 on DNxHD, Richard.

                                    • 15. Re: Quicktime Gamma
                                      Rallymax-forum Level 3

                                      Richard Knight wrote:

                                      The reason I asked the question was because I am looking for a file format to master my projects to. The Avid DNxHD codec is often mentioned in this forum but this is only available (on the pc at least) in a QT wrapper. If I use this format will I be committing my masters to a file with incorrect gamma?

                                       

                                      It's not the encoding/resulting file that's the problem. It's the PLAYER. If you open the MOV file with Windows Media Player (WMP) it will be just fine.

                                      Can someone comment on whether DHxHD wrapped in MOV played in QuickTime Player results in bad color calibration? If it is wrong it means that all codecs are going to be wrong in QTPlayer. If it's right then it's just QTPlayer's v.v.v.v.v. crappy decoders (ah MPEG-4/h.264/AVC anyone!).

                                       

                                      BTW, I changed my QTPlayer to Safe Mode and the colors/gamma is fixed but you don't get full frame rate rendering to the screen. (eg 24fps shows only 15fps of them for me).

                                       

                                      Harm & Richard...

                                      Re: Opening Lagarith or DNxHD (which btw I know I'm continuing to take off-topic)

                                      maybe...

                                      Looking back 19 years to 1993 when I was using Premiere 1.0 on Windows I was capturing standard definition video in MJPEG with an YCrCb + S-video + SDI I/O card.

                                       

                                      Could I open that footage today? Yes. Why? Because the compression algorithm it's an internationally accepted standard not a proprietary codec.

                                      So I put it to you for long term ability to open a file that Lagarith or DNxHD or ProRes for that matter might not be possible.

                                      OF the choices today I'd go with AVC-Intra Lossless. It's the best compression technology that exists today, it's a standard and is easy enough to decode since it's Intra. Second to that MotionJPEG2000.

                                       

                                      BUT does Long Term compatibility matter for day to day workflow of footage? That's up to you to decide based on your workflow. For me, yes. I ultimately batch transcode all footage to AVC-Intra Lossless for archiving because it's the smallest Lossless standardized format available which is also not too taxing on the PC to work with (otherwise I'd archive to AVC).

                                       

                                      my 2c.

                                      Edward