21 Replies Latest reply on Aug 6, 2016 4:45 PM by Robert1950

    Switch off printer colour management

    Jach Goldsmith

      Hello,

       

      I am on a Mac Snow Leopard 10.6.8 and using IDCS5 to print to a Canon Pro 9500 printer.

       

      When I get to the print dialog, I can only select colour handling by indesign. There is no option for colour managed by printer which is fine because I would prefer to have indesign manage the colours.

       

      However when I go to printer settings dialog I cannot turn off the printer colour management. There are two radio buttons only in the colour matching section. One is canon colour matching and the other is Coloursync from which I can select from various colour profiles.

       

      I can't figure out how to disable colour mangement from the printer driver.

       

      Can someone help me with this please?

       

      Jach

        • 1. Re: Switch off printer colour management
          rob day Adobe Community Professional & MVP

          Inkjet printers usually can't accept CMYK values, so the Let ID Handle Color option means ID handles the conversion of CMYK or Lab to composite RGB for the printer. In the Print Settings there still needs to be color management to convert the composite RGB for the printer depending on the paper and resolution. So in the Printer Setup you should have a Quality & Media option where you choose the paper/resolution profile.

          • 2. Re: Switch off printer colour management
            Jach Goldsmith Level 1

            Hi Thanks for your reply. I have selected the paper type and resolution. That's fine but I still need to turn off colour management in the printer driver, otherwise there will be two instances of colour corrections which would be wrong.

            • 3. Re: Switch off printer colour management
              rob day Adobe Community Professional & MVP

              otherwise there will be two instances of colour corrections which would be wrong

               

              Unless you drive your printer with a postscript RIP it expects the source color to be composite RGB or composite Gray and your only choice is to let InDesign make the conversion to composite RGB. In the Print dialog's Color Management tab you can choose what the composite RGB color space sent to the printer will be—if you choose AdobeRGB all CMYK, Lab, and other non AdobeRGB objects get converted into composite AdobeRGB.

               

              No printer is RGB, so the composite RGB still needs to get converted to your printer's color (CMYKRG for the 9500)—how the RGB gets converted happens in the Printer Setup. So the ColorSync option would let you choose a custom profile made for the 9500 printing to a certain paper, while the Canon option would use default canon paper profiles.

              • 4. Re: Switch off printer colour management
                Jach Goldsmith Level 1

                Hi Rob

                 

                I am afraid I am a bit lost.

                 

                From indeisign I go to the print menu and I can  see that "let indesign Determine Colours" is selected and below that is where I can select my custom profile from the drop down menu. Next to the "Let Indesign Determine Colours" is a warning asking me to disable colour management in the printer driver dialog box. So far so good.

                 

                Then if I click on printer setup I get to the printer driver dialogue where I can select Color Matching option.This gives me 2 options. One is Canon colour matching and the other is Colorsync. I can select either of these 2 options. There is no option to turn off Colour Management here. This is my problem.

                 

                For example, I opened an image in Photoshop CS5 and went to the print menu. I selected "let photoshop manage colours" and selected my custom profile. Again there is a warning to ensure that colour management is disabled in the printer driver dialog box. I then click on printer setup and I can get to the Color Matching options. Here both the radio buttons are greyed out which means that photoshop has taken over the colour conversion process and automatically disabled the printer from carrying out the conversion.

                 

                I hope I am explaining this right.

                • 5. Re: Switch off printer colour management
                  rob day Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                  I think the difference is that InDesign can have any number of objects with different color spaces on the page—AdobeRGB, sRGB, CMYK SWOP, CMYK Euroscale, Lab, etc.—while a Photoshop document is in one color mode.

                   

                  So in ID with a non postscript printer all of the document color objects have to be converted into one composite RGB space before the color is output for a particular paper and resolution. In Photoshop the color is always composite.

                   

                  If you choose DocumentRGB as the Printer Profile in the Color Management tab and then with Canon color matching selected, choose the correct media from Media Type, do you get bad color?

                  • 6. Re: Switch off printer colour management
                    Jach Goldsmith Level 1

                    I can see what you are saying about objects with different profiles in one indesign document. But the output has to be just one profile - in my case my custom built profile for the type of paper and my inkjet printer.

                     

                    So if my understanding is right - Indesign takes the number colours from the various objects in the document and convert them to numbers that my printer will use for a particular type of paper. To do this conversion indesign needs a recipe, and that recipe is in the form of my custum built profile.

                     

                    However, what is happening so far, is that indesign is converting the colours using my profile but then the printer driver is also doing some form of conversion which is messing up the colours.

                     

                    What I did try is select the right profile in the indesign print dialogue and then went to printer settings and chose colour sync and the same profile from the drop down list. I was hoping that selecting the same profile in both indesign and printer driver would result in preventing double profiling. However the results were bad.

                     

                    I am not sure how choosing DocumentRGB is going to help. Because my colour setting across the adobe suite is ProPhoto RGB for the RGB settings.

                     

                    If I go to the drop down menu for printer profile, one of the options I get is "DocumentRGB - ProPhotoRGB". Wouldn't this be wrong if some of the images in my document are sRGB or some other colour space?

                    • 7. Re: Switch off printer colour management
                      Jach Goldsmith Level 1

                      I just tried this:

                       

                      In Indesign I exported the document as a pdf with images set to no compression and in Output - No Colour Conversion and Profile Inclusion Policy set to Include All Profiles.

                       

                      I then opened the pdf in photoshop CS5 and in the print dialogue I selected Let Photoshop Manage colours and also selected the right profile. In the printer setup dialogue both the coloursync and canon colour match options were greyed out.

                       

                      This worked fine.

                       

                      So why can photoshop disable the colour handling by the printer whereas indesign cannot?

                      • 8. Re: Switch off printer colour management
                        rob day Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                        I then opened the pdf in photoshop CS5

                         

                        When you open the PDF in PS everything is converted into one space, in your case ProPhotoRGB if you open as RGB—so an sRGB ID object does get converted to ProPhotoRGB in your PDF workflow.

                         

                        Have you tried setting the Print Color Management profile to document RGB and then choosing your custom profile as the ColorSync profile in Printer Setup? Or, selecting your custom profile in the Print dialog and leaving the Printer Setup as Canon? I'm wondering if one of those options imitates your PDF to Photoshop workflow?

                        • 9. Re: Switch off printer colour management
                          Jach Goldsmith Level 1

                          Hi Rob Thank you for your patience.

                           

                          You are right when you say "so an sRGB ID object does get converted to ProPhotoRGB in your PDF workflow."

                           

                          I did not realize that photoshop applied the ProPhotoRGB colour space to the image. I just tested a document with 2 different spaces - sRGB and ProPhotoRGB and noticed that photoshop opened both in the ProphotoRGB space. So when I said that Photoshop got my colours right that was just plain luck!

                           

                          I will try out your suggestions about DocumentRGB in Indesign and custom Coloursync profile in the printer dialogue and keep you posted.

                          • 10. Re: Switch off printer colour management
                            rob day Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                            I did not realize that photoshop applied the ProPhotoRGB colour space to the image.

                             

                            It doesn't have to be ProPhoto, when you open a PDF the conversion is to your Color Setting's Working Space. If your RGB Working Space is sRGB and you open with RGB as the mode you'll get a composite sRGB image. Same goes for opening as CMYK.

                            • 11. Re: Switch off printer colour management
                              Jach Goldsmith Level 1

                              Just tried out both the suggestions - DocumentRGB in Indesign and Custom Coloursync profile in printer dialogue and vice versa with Custom profile in Indesign and DocumentRGB in printer setup.

                               

                              The colours came out really bad. And both different.

                              • 12. Re: Switch off printer colour management
                                rob day Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                Sorry, I drive my printers with a RIP, which is a different approach. Maybe someone else can jump in. I assume you chose the same Media Type in PS and ID?

                                • 13. Re: Switch off printer colour management
                                  rob day Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                  and vice versa with Custom profile in Indesign and DocumentRGB in printer setup.

                                  I meant Custom profile in the Print dialog and Canon colour matching in the Print Setup (no ColorSync)

                                  • 14. Re: Switch off printer colour management
                                    Jach Goldsmith Level 1

                                    I meant Custom profile in the Print dialog and Canon colour matching in the Print Setup (no ColorSync)

                                    These were the settings when I realized this problem. I had selected custom profile in indesign and in the printer setup dialogue the Canon colour matching radio button was selected.

                                     

                                    The media type has been the same throughout.

                                    • 15. Re: Switch off printer colour management
                                      rob day Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                      Have you tried exporting a PDF/X-4 pdf and printing from Acrobat Pro? Choose your custom profile from the Color Sync pop up in Color Matching.

                                      • 16. Re: Switch off printer colour management
                                        Jach Goldsmith Level 1

                                        Hi,

                                         

                                        Sorry about the delay in getting back.

                                         

                                        Rob, I tried your suggestion to export a PDF/X-4 and printing from Acrobat Pro and choosing my custom profile from Coloursync. That worked fine. It is certainly better than rasterizing each page in Photoshop.

                                         

                                        However, using this workflow, I did not get an option to select a rendering intent. Am I missing something here?

                                         

                                        Thank you.

                                        • 17. Re: Switch off printer colour management
                                          rob day Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                          There have been issues reported about the monitor profile being introduced into RGB print workflows from ID:

                                           

                                          http://forums.adobe.com/message/3287272#3287272%233287272

                                           

                                          You might try Print As Bitmap from the ID Print dialog Advanced tab.

                                           

                                          Does the rendering intent out of Photoshop have much effect? I wouldn't expect rendering intents to have much impact printing to a large gamut CMYKRG printer.

                                          • 18. Re: Switch off printer colour management
                                            Jach Goldsmith Level 1

                                            You might try Print As Bitmap from the ID Print dialog Advanced tab.

                                            If I do that I am back to where I started. i.e. not being able to switch off colour management in the printer dialogue and letting indesign manage the colours.

                                             

                                            Does the rendering intent out of Photoshop have much effect?

                                            I notice a slight difference in the shadow areas. I can see more tonal variation in the shadow areas using the perceptual rendering intent.

                                             

                                            But so far, the indesign > pdf > acrobat workflow has given me near enough satisfaction.

                                            • 19. Re: Switch off printer colour management
                                              exitstrategy Level 1

                                              Been a while since you posted this, Jach -- but did you ever find anything? Running into the same issue, but with updated specs (OSX 10.10 and Indesign CC).

                                              • 20. Re: Switch off printer colour management
                                                exitstrategy Level 1

                                                Ok, just in case someone else is banging their heads against the wall -- I finally found a solution to this. A bit counter-intuitive, but I guess it makes sense:

                                                 

                                                In the InDesign print dialogue. Go to color management and select Let Indesign determine colors, and use whatever your best printer/paper profile is (my Epson R2000 selects based upon paper). This is pretty standard!

                                                 

                                                The issue: in the "Printer" dialogue from that first menu, the "color matching" settings don't give you the option to turn off color management (which you usually want to do, as InDesign is managing the color from the step above). So instead of letting ColorSync ruin your prints, select "EPSON color controls" (counter-intuitive for Photoshop users!) Then go to the "printer settings" dropdown in the same dialogue and THAT settings page will let you turn off the printer's color management!

                                                 

                                                Hooray! Good luck!

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                                                • 21. Re: Switch off printer colour management
                                                  Robert1950 Level 1

                                                  This worked. Many thanks