Can fonts in a PDF be converted to outlines with Acrobat Pro 9?

I haven't looked at this in the Preflight and Fixup panel. I would look through there; but as it is frowned upon officially, I wouldn't gaurantee to find it.

Are you familiar with the InDesign convert fonts to outlines via transparency flattener technique (hack)?

Converting fonts to outlines is frowned upon do to the loss of font hinting, loss of editability, and inherant fattening of the font.

In your seat, you have to do what has to be done. 

http://indesignsecrets.com/converting-text-to-outlines-the-right-way-updated.php

I may have read that this hack is not working in CS5 or 5.5

Place the pdf into InDesign. Create a box or small stroke on the page, in the case of non native ID elements (this pdf) the object needs to touch/overlap the pdf. Color the object, perhaps .1% black, apply transparency to it, as little as 1%. You effectivly have something unseeable, but will force the Transparency Flattener to kick in.

Create a new Transparency Flattener Setting, see my example,

Check the effect with the Flattener Panel, see my example

Place the pdf into InDesign...

Argl! Never do that, this is a total heresy!

==> Using Acrobat Pro:

- apply an invisible transparent object to all pages to force flattening (e.g. apply a little white square with an 1% opacity as a watermark in a corner),

- then go to the Transparency flattening : http://help.adobe.com/en_US/Acrobat/9.0/Professional/WS58a04a822e3e50102bd615109794195ff-7 b87.w.html

and use a flattener preset that convert fonts to outlines.

For those who might need this technique, how do you propose to add a transparent element?

how do you propose to add a transparent element?

Take a screengrab of a small white area on the screen, then, using the Watermark or the Background tool (in Acrobat), apply this white picture on all pages with a 1% (ou 2, or ") opacity.

So this this dumb picture will remains invisible after the Transparency flatening, and fonts will be outlined (outlining font requires Transparency flatening : no transparency on a page = no flatening/outlining on this page).

Since he said to drop the PDF into Indesign,

Noooooo…

@JR_Boulay - While I can appreciate staying within one application, I'd appreciate your as to why you are so vehemently opposed to placing a pdf into InDesign. I have not tried your technique, but with a read through and some checks, it looks like a viable approach. I had considered that AA only allows the placement of non transparent formats, but found that transparency can then be applied via the Watermark Dialog. (The step of severly shrinking the watermark element also needs applying)

Properly exported, InDesign will preserve the intergrity of any element within pdf. It comes down to ones comfort level, IMO.

I'd rather avoid turning this into a flame contest, btw.

all normal stuff.

Are you saying that Acrobat reduces page areas usually or only when using the Create Booklet option?

I've imposed more than a few books in ID, have printed more than I can count, honestly never saw the Print Booklet in AA's diaolg until recently.

Having imposed numerous books with ID, I know prefer to let my RIP perform it; I never have to leave Acrobat. If you have a Fiery or Creo RIP, Command Workstation, check the Printers Advanced features, you may save some time.

I just used Acrobats booklet feature and ther was no scaling, fwiw

Properly exported, InDesign will preserve the intergrity of any element within pdf. It comes down to ones comfort level, IMO.

No, even if your using "Export" instead of exporting via PostScript: http://www.prepressure.com/pdf/basics/refrying

;-)

The last Reply to that Blog is 18 months old, it it is all geared towards the problems of Postscript and Distiller. It is correct in content; refrying via ps and Distiller will strip out anything non essential to a traditional "make plates, mount plates, run offset" .

InDesigns Export engine is more than capable of maintaining pdf integrity. Your interpretation of the page is incorrect.

Note: The essence of this thread is to, in fact, convert properly embedded fonts to outlines within a pdf. There are ramifications to this conversion; loss of editabilty and font hinting. The intent of the thread is to allow means to alter a pdf, where fonts used are not locally installed on the station.

I knew this topic was going to turn this way..

I have never seen a page scale from Acrobat unless I invoked it from the Page Scaling. Perhaps Scaling was set prior to the Booklet Print and AA assumed you wanted both...

JR_Boulay wrote:

 

Properly exported, InDesign will preserve the intergrity of any element within pdf. It comes down to ones comfort level, IMO.

No, even if your using "Export" instead of exporting via PostScript: http://www.prepressure.com/pdf/basics/refrying

 

;-)

Placing a PDF into InDesign and exporting is in no way refrying the PDF. ID internalizes the PDF content and uses it's own PDF library to create the new PDF file. There is no postscript, and no distiller involved.

I'd rather avoid turning this into a flame contest, btw.

No flame here, the machine gun is just a silly joke. Sorry.

While I can appreciate staying within one application, I'd appreciate your as to why you are so vehemently opposed to placing a pdf into InDesign.

Logical needs to be logical: can you imagine someone converting an .indd file to PDF just for correcting typos?

And convert back the PDF to .indd to terminate the layout using InDesign ?

It's a non-sense.

Properly exported, InDesign will preserve the intergrity of any element within pdf. It comes down to ones comfort level, IMO.

Importing a PDF in a desktop publishing app to export it back in PDF always cause data loss, especially for fonts and profiles/color management.

Even using InDesign, and even using "Export" instead of Distiller.

JR_Boulay wrote:

Properly exported, InDesign will preserve the intergrity of any element within pdf. It comes down to ones comfort level, IMO.

Importing a PDF in a desktop publishing app to export it back in PDF always cause data loss, especially for fonts and profiles/color management.

Even using InDesign, and even using "Export" instead of Distiller.

 

Sorry, while that might be the case with other layout applications that distill PDF, that is ABSOLUTELY NOT TRUE when importing PDF into InDesign and using InDesign's built-in PDF library to export. If the information is in the PDF to begin with, it's still there in ID, and it can be preserved or discarded (in the case of color profiles) depending on the settings. Any embedded fonts will be preserved, as fonts, unless the transparency flattening hack is used.

that is ABSOLUTELY NOT TRUE when importing PDF into InDesign and using InDesign's built-in PDF library to export

May be, may be InDesign is the exception. I can't arguee furthermore.

In any case, this process is illogical, useless and time consuming since there is nothing that you can do into an imported PDF using InDesign that you cannot do using Acrobat…

(Unless if you want to convert a PDF to SWF with the nice page turning effect)

Also bear in mind that Acrobat can natively batch process (Droplets, Actions,…) any repetitive task, unlike InDesign.

PS:

I just retrieved the link to this document about refrying: http://www.prontaweb.com/pp-h.com/images/stories/pdfs/refrying.pdf

I won't argue the merits of whether it is better to do the flattening from ID or from Acrobat. Many designers are more familiar with, and more comfortable working in,  InDesign than they are in Acrobat (and though it isn't relevant for  kellyjaye, there are plenty of designers without access to a full  version of Acrobat).

I haven't attempted to do an outline conversion on a PDF by flattening in ID, so I don't know for sure that it would work, but it seems like a reasonable suggestion worth trying if that suits your comfort level. I simply take exception to your saying that placing a PDF in ID and working with it would be somehow damaging to the PDF. If that were the case, it would be impossible to create most documents like magazines or newspapers where content is supplied by a diverse universe of contributors. I'm fairly sure you would agree that these publications are created everyday without any problems at all (and without having to outline any type set in a properly embedded font).

Personally, were I faced with the problem in the original post, I'd send the PDF back to the originator for corrections, but I understand that may not be possible. Given that fonts may be lost, I probably STILL would do something like either changing the font in Acrobat to one that is available and similar in appearance, or, better, attempt to open the PDF directly in ID using the pdf2id plugin and make the edits and font substitutions there where you have real control over the layout.

(and though it isn't relevant for  kellyjaye, there are plenty of designers without access to a full  version of Acrobat).

So, in this case they should outline fonts when exporting the .indd document to PDF, not later by re-importing the PDF…

I simply take exception to your saying that placing a PDF in ID and working with it would be somehow damaging to the PDF. […]

I'm fairly sure you would agree that these publications are created everyday without any problems at all (and without having to outline any type set in a properly embedded font).

In a prepress intent this is OK, but importing/exporting a PDF into InDesign may cause many data loss (accessibility, bookmarks, hyperlinks, form fields, JavaScripts, multimedia objects, etc.).

That's what I meant.

JR_Boulay wrote:

 

(and though it isn't relevant for  kellyjaye, there are plenty of designers without access to a full  version of Acrobat).

So, in this case they should outline fonts when exporting the .indd document to PDF, not later by re-importing the PDF…

 

 

But the point here was they didn't make or have access to the original .indd file...

I simply take exception to your saying that placing a PDF in ID and working with it would be somehow damaging to the PDF. […]

I'm fairly sure you would agree that these publications are created everyday without any problems at all (and without having to outline any type set in a properly embedded font).

In a prepress intent this is OK, but importing/exporting a PDF into InDesign may cause many data loss (accessibility, bookmarks, hyperlinks, form fields, JavaScripts, multimedia objects, etc.).

That's what I meant.

 

And how many of those things would be preserved in print? Your point would be valid, I suppose, for PDF destined to be viewed on screen.

And how many of those things would be preserved in print? Your point would be valid, I suppose, for PDF destined to be viewed on screen.

This is why I wrote : "In a prepress intent this is OK".

This is fantastic! I wish I had known about this years ago. Sometimes PDF files just wouldn't convert text to outlines and I'd have to use rasterize them in photoshop. This seems to solve that problem. Thanks JR Boulay!

My pleasure.

I could not find a preflight script in AA9 either. Another choice might be to try to print to a new PDF and setup the printer properties to replace with outline fonts. That would be under the Layout>Advanced>PS options. There is a font option there that might do the job. If you need other info (bookmarks and such, you would need to create the new PDF and then use replace pages to place the new PDF into the old one (or copy of) to have all the annotations and such.

Hi,

See why you must not refry (print to a new) a PDF .

Refrying PDFs: the Good, the Bad and the Ugly: http://www.gwg.org/wp-content/uploads/attachments/f121c163fa679f86977235da32290812.pdf

There are pros and cons on this issue. Sometimes folks need a quick result and do not have the time to look for better alternatives. Other times is appears there is no alternative. The latter includes the case of making cropping permanent (see below, I found it). It used to be that using Reduce File Size would remove the area outside the crop, but that is no longer the case. There are also preflight scripts or JavaScripts for many needs, but they are often hard to find. The article on refrying is interesting and it points out some of the drawbacks and I thank you for posting (a good read), but it primarily points to the pitfalls if a refry is done so one is aware of the expectations.

I have found that there is a way to delete cropped info permanently, though I have not tried it yet. Under Tools>Protection>Remove Hidden Information you get a whole analysis of all of the hidden info. You can then select the parts to accept. For the issue of converting a booklet to single pages, you could crop the left, remove the hidden info, and save to left.pdf. Then reload the original file and crop the right side, remove, and save. Then combine them and reorder the pages. It took a google search to find this option that I had missed all this time! So there is probably a way to do most of the things for fixing parts of a PDF, but for many the time to hunt for a solution is just not acceptable in their workflow and the trade-off of a refry is worth the time savings.

in InDesign i always use the transparency flattener,

Do not use 1% white - this will surely change the color values

- use a white rectangle with multiply on a top level layer

- go to edit -> transparency flattener presets -> create a new one with "convert all text to outlines" checked

- use your new preset in the transparency flattener window to preview

- in PDF export dialog go to Advanced and in flattener options choose your new preset

- export your pdf with outlined text

Did you notice who is the author of this document?

As to the refry paper, yep. It was written by one of the designers of Acrobat. He provided a lot of the drawbacks to refrying, typically compromising some of the content quality, particularly some graphics. For may folks the compromise is acceptable for a quick solution to a problem and that was sort of suggest in the paper also. It was a good review and I learned a bit, but it did not necessarily say to never refry, but to be aware of the factors that may change.