14 Replies Latest reply on Feb 24, 2012 7:22 AM by the_wine_snob

    Problem with playback in WMP12 - unsure of origin of problem

    rfkiii in USA Level 1

      I am always afraid of misdirecting a discussion with an incorrectly worded subject line. Also, I am sensitive to clogging a question with too many unnecessary details although I must admit, at this point, I can't determine what is necessary or not. Finally, I may have several issues and causations working independently here. If so, I would appreciate your help on any segment of the issue even if it does not lead to a complete solution.

       

      History: A few weeks ago, I was working with PE7 in an XP environ. After I began editing 1920x1080 & 1440x810 video, my main issue was choppy preview and scrolling along the timeline. Made it more difficult to come to a desire editing point without using the single frame advance. Even before work with the higher resolution video commenced, I never was able to get smooth render of time stretched clips in resolutions as low as 640x360.

       

      The Fix:. I upgraded to Wondows 7 Pro  64-bit, an SSD drive for the OS and programs and 24 GB of RAM (still using Gen 1 i7 though). I upgraded to PE10.

       

      The Problem (now): After rendering to wmv at 1440x810, the video appears much smaller than this when played in WMP12. Full screen does not result in full screen coerage. I rendered the same source file and clip in both PE7 and PE10 this morning before posting this. Loading both into WMP12, the PE7 video looks as it should - 1440x810 (at 100%) filling much of my 1920X1080 NEC2690 monitor. However the file rendered with PE10 produces a smaller image in WMP12 and full screen has little or no effect in enlarging the video (it is almost like the black border was added to the video to make the image resolution a total of 1440x810. I thought maybe I accidentally added some theme to the video but I can't find where that would be located in the GUI. In PE10, I created a custom profile in the WMV section of share that appears indentical to the ones I created in PE7.

       

      Any insights would be appreciated. I may not be able to check in on this thread until this evening.

        • 1. Re: Problem with playback in WMP12 - unsure of origin of problem
          Steve Grisetti Adobe Community Professional

          I guess I'm not clear what you're doing. You're rendering your video to a 1440x810 WMV and you're wondering why it isn't the same size as your 1920x1080 computer monitor?

           

          And which project settings are you using to edit your 1920x1080 and 1440x810 video? You're not editing them in the same project, are you?

           

          What model of camcorder is your 1440x810 video coming from? That doesn't sound like a camcorder source, and I'd be very concerned about its codecs and frame rate and how Premiere Elements is able to process it (which is likely why the program is playing your timeline so sluggishly on yoru old computer).

          • 2. Re: Problem with playback in WMP12 - unsure of origin of problem
            rfkiii in USA Level 1

            Thanks Steve for the response.

             

            Bear in mind you will have to interpret my descriptions somewhat as I am not well versed in vdeo editing jargon.

             

            All I was TRYING to say about the 1440x810 wmv (as rendered in PE10) and played back in WMP12 on a monitor with 1920x1080 resolution was that it appeared not to be the correct size within the monitor area as opposed to the same rendering (but in PE7) which appears size appropriate for the display resolution. This is confusing because it is.

             

            You should forget about 1920x1080 at the moment (other than to know that is my display resolution). I haven't even tested files with this resolution yet in terms of editing and rendering.

             

            I do not know what camcorder any of these files are coming from. I assume the 1440x810 is just an editing downsize from 1920x1080 to reduce overall file size. You should start with the knowledge that everything works perfectly in PE7 (Premiere Elements 7) in terms of the output issue. I have been using PE7 straight out of the box on the same machine I am currently using PE10 on. Are codecs specific to different versions of PE? I would be surprised if they are. If so, can those codecs be imported from PE7 to PE10?

             

            The first and most critical issue is the playback (and the apparent unequal sizing) of the two files within WMP12 (again one rendered in PE7 and the other rendered in PE10 both on the same machine with access presumably to the same codecs). Again, one of my impressions is that PE10 is attaching a border to my video that could be included in the total output resolution of 1440x810 and ultimately preventing the image portion to go "full screen"  in WMP12. Is this possible? My presumption here is that WMP12 is working as it should but...

             

            The 2nd issue is the choppy scrolling along the timeline (which makes the preview pane video choppy or is this a chicken/egg thing). This only began to occur when file sizes went to 1440x810 and 1920x11080. I added more memory and an OS to handle it but this didn't cure it. Barring Preference tweaks in PE10 to enhance performance that don't work, would an updated video card help? What would be the minimum specs for a video editing card for a 64-bit environ?

            • 3. Re: Problem with playback in WMP12 - unsure of origin of problem
              the_wine_snob Level 9

              The 1440 x 810 is an odd size. One usually sees 1440 x 1080, or 1280 x 720. With the first, the PAR (Pixel Aspect Ratio) will likely be 1.3333 for Anamorphic HD, and with the latter, the PAR will be 1.0 (Square Pixels).

               

              There is also not a Project Preset for 1440 x 810, so there will be a mis-match between the Source Footage and the Project's Frame Size, resulting in black bars on the top and bottom.

               

              Good luck,

               

              Hunt

              1 person found this helpful
              • 4. Re: Problem with playback in WMP12 - unsure of origin of problem
                rfkiii in USA Level 1

                Thanks Bill for your response.

                 

                I am unsure what part of the puzzle you are addressing - the output issue or the choppy timeline.

                 

                Regarding the output issue, what abnout the information that the Premiere Elements 7 renders the file perfectly fine.

                 

                Regarding the choppy timeline and preview video, this occurred in XP, Windows Home Premium and Professional versions as well as Premiere Elements 7 & 10 but only when the larger resolution video such as 1920x1080 was introduced (not just this odd size yourself and Steve are zeroing in on).

                • 5. Re: Problem with playback in WMP12 - unsure of origin of problem
                  Steve Grisetti Adobe Community Professional

                  How fast is your processor?

                   

                  Version 10 is much more effective at working with hi-def and AVCHD than earlier versions -- but it can still require a quad core or i7 processor for it to play smoothly on your project timeline.

                   

                  Though matching your project specs to your video can greatly improve performance. If your project specs are matching your video specs, you will NOT see red lines above the clips you add to the timeline until you add effects or transitions to them. Do you see red lines above your clips when you add them to your timeline?

                  1 person found this helpful
                  • 6. Re: Problem with playback in WMP12 - unsure of origin of problem
                    the_wine_snob Level 9

                    I am addressing the initial Project setup. What is the Project Preset, that you chose in PrE 10, for that 1440 x 810 footage?

                     

                    As Steve points out, HD material, if compressed with a flavor of H.264 will require a hefty CPU to process smoothly.

                     

                    Good luck,

                     

                    Hunt

                    1 person found this helpful
                    • 7. Re: Problem with playback in WMP12 - unsure of origin of problem
                      nealeh Level 5

                      Install the free VLC player from VideoLan and play both your files with it (ensuring that Video> Zoom is at 1:1 and Video> Scale is off).

                       

                      How do the two videos look now?

                       

                      Cheers,

                      --

                      Neale

                      Insanity is hereditary, you get it from your children

                      1 person found this helpful
                      • 8. Re: Problem with playback in WMP12 - unsure of origin of problem
                        rfkiii in USA Level 1

                        Good afternoon Steve. My processor is a first gen i7 running on an ASUS P6T Ver 2 board with an x58 chipset.

                         

                        I indeed do have a red line above the clips. I have looked into the Project Settings window many times. This menu is loacted in the Edit Menu just above Preferences right? The data entered here does not match the video and is all greyed out. The Editing Mode is DV NTSC, timebase is 29.97 Frame size is 720 horizontal and 480 vertical, again all greyed out. The display format is not greyed and it is set to "30fps drop frame timecode"

                        • 9. Re: Problem with playback in WMP12 - unsure of origin of problem
                          rfkiii in USA Level 1

                          Good afternoon Bill. As I mentioned to Steve, much of the Project Settings within the General Tab and Render Tab are greyed out. The fields contain information that does not correspond to the video. The Editing Mode is DV NTSC. Don't know if this is the correct mode or not but the frame sizes are incorrect for the project.  I cannot seem to find how to change this. There really seems like there should be a feature that reads the clip(s) and automatically assign the correct specs unless (a paranoid thought just struck me ) that Windows is misreporting the resolution and PE10 is showing me the correct resolution. Naw, right? Even so, what's up with the mis-sizing in WMP12 and the inability to go Full Screen with PE10 generated files? I have 640x360 video rendered with PE7 that can be viewed in Full Screen mode in WMP12.

                          • 10. Re: Problem with playback in WMP12 - unsure of origin of problem
                            rfkiii in USA Level 1

                            Good afternoon Neale. I downloaded VLC and loaded the two files. As I suspected, the PE10 file has a border surrounding the video that when taken into account along with the video is the same size as the video from the PE7 file (which doesn't have a border). The border doesn't blend into VLC's background like it did in WMP12 so it is visible to see. Both videos appear to be 1440x810 (with the PE10 file adding the border to get to that size). This sort of reminds of Photoshop where the image size can be smaller than the canvas. Any thoughts on this?

                            • 11. Re: Problem with playback in WMP12 - unsure of origin of problem
                              rfkiii in USA Level 1

                              Thanks gentlemen. Setting the Project Preset to a more appropriate setting for the project did the trick for the output issue. If you are curious, the Project Preset I used to correct the problem is NTSC/Hard Disk Disk,. Flash Memory Camcorders-HD 1080i 30 (60i).

                               

                              Now, my new problem with this is 1.) how to change the existing Project Settings or 2.) how to import the editing cuts and effects from a previous project to a new project. I'll start a new thread for this & another for the choppy preview pane.

                              • 12. Re: Problem with playback in WMP12 - unsure of origin of problem
                                nealeh Level 5
                                • Glad you worked that out. But if you had ever specifically answered the second question you were asked in reply #1 (not until reply #8 could it be inferred) - you would have got to that answer sooner.
                                • VLC shows it as it is, so that black border really was there.
                                • You cannot change the settings on an existing project, but using the commercial clipboard manager 'Clipmate' you can copy your clips and transitions into another project with the correct settings.
                                • Choppy preview panes are typically down to incorrect project settings, unrendered previews, out of date graphics drivers, too much background software running, inadequate defragmented disk space.

                                 

                                Cheers,

                                --

                                Neale

                                Insanity is hereditary, you get it from your children

                                • 13. Re: Problem with playback in WMP12 - unsure of origin of problem
                                  rfkiii in USA Level 1

                                  Neale, I know it may seem incomprehensible to you but at the point in time of Reply #1, I did not know what a project setting was. It seems to me that a well thought out program would read the source file and apply or suggest the correct preset or provide a popup with text that says the source and the preset do not match. Is this something the Premiere non-Elements program will do? What happened to me in this regard is why error messaging in symbols without accompanying text does not work well.

                                   

                                  Did you read the first paragraph in my first post? I do not have the video editing jargon down yet, and, I am nearly totally unfamiliar with Premiere functions although I've managed to edit dozens of files with the preset that came with PE7, now as I understand it, all are incorrect (although the outcome from PE7 rendering was acceptable due to a different preset being applied as opposed to PE10). Working with newbies is like trying to translate a foreign language without benefit of a translation dictionary and I am a stone cold newbie.

                                   

                                  Again, this may seem incomprehensible to you, but stuff like the red line? Before this thread, I thought this was a colorful border.

                                  • 14. Re: Problem with playback in WMP12 - unsure of origin of problem
                                    the_wine_snob Level 9

                                    In PrE 10 (might have been introduced in PrE 9?), the program will flag a mis-match between Source Footage and Project.

                                     

                                    PrPro goes a step further. Now, it uses Sequences, which are like mini-Projects in a "master Project." The Sequences are unique Timelines, and do not rely on a global Project setting, like PrE, that can only have one Timeline and its characteristics ARE Project setting dependent. In PrPro, one would just drag a Source File to the New Icon, and a Sequence, that matches, would be created, with that Clip in it. PrE is getting closer, but until Sequences (independent Timelines) are added, it will likely not be quite so powerful.

                                     

                                    For some good resources for learning PrE, see this ARTICLE. I highly recommend Steve Grisetti's Basic Training Series - just an excellent way to start.

                                     

                                    Good luck, and happy editing,

                                     

                                    Hunt