20 Replies Latest reply on Mar 1, 2012 4:37 AM by pwhite2315

    InDesign 5.5 slowness when using master pages....PLEASE HELP

    pwhite2315 Level 1

      We utilize master pages within InDesign.  Our files have anywhere between 100-200 master pages.  We have NEVER had speed issues working within InDesign before (ie just turning layers on and off takes 3-4 seconds each, etc).  I noticed when I deleted all but a few master pages, the performance is as it should be.  Why in 5.5 is this an issue now with us?  Again, the way we have utilized InDesign before, has never been an issue until now and it makes it almost impossible to work with.... Thoughts?  Suggestions? 

        • 1. Re: InDesign 5.5 slowness when using master pages....PLEASE HELP
          Peter Spier Most Valuable Participant (Moderator)

          I don't think I can give you a satisfactory answer as to why you are seeing a slowdown, but I'm curious why you would need 100 master pages. I suspect there may be a better way. How many document pages do you have?

          • 2. Re: InDesign 5.5 slowness when using master pages....PLEASE HELP
            pwhite2315 Level 1

            Peter, thanks for the reply.  Basically, we are a custom calendar company for school planners.  We start with only 2 pages in our Indesign document and build from a CSV file.  However, we utilize master pages for our monthly calendars as well as custom photo inserts from schools.  Yes, there may be a better way....but this is just how we have always done it and simply update each year if need be.  Again, has never been an issue with us.  It literally takes 5 seconds to unlock a layer...then another 5 to lock.  This is just one example.  Once I delete all master pages other than 1, I do not have these performance issues.  I have tried several things such as turning off live preflight, using fast display, renaming my pref. files, etc. and none has helped.  Again, it has to be the master pages.  Does 5.5 utilize master pages differently for some reason? 

            • 3. Re: InDesign 5.5 slowness when using master pages....PLEASE HELP
              Peter Spier Most Valuable Participant (Moderator)

              I'm still not quite clear on how you use the master pages, but it doesn't sound to me like there is a need for 100 masters in a planner. Master pages should be used for things that appear, unchanged (or changed by using text variables), on multiple pages. If a master is applied to less than two pages it's redundant, and even at two it might be worth examining why it's there.

              • 4. Re: InDesign 5.5 slowness when using master pages....PLEASE HELP
                Christopher_Engelhardt

                I agree with Peter, why on earth would you need 100 different master pages? I have some questions:

                 

                1. Does each individual client have their own master pages
                2. What OS are you using
                3. Who came up with the idea to have 100-200 master pages

                 

                ~Christopher

                • 5. Re: InDesign 5.5 slowness when using master pages....PLEASE HELP
                  pwhite2315 Level 1

                  Basically, we have 52 master pages for the customer to be able to have 52 different photos as a backdrop on their weekly calendars (spread)  We utilize the data merge feature for info like days of week, years, events the school wants on calendar, etc.  There are a lot of sizing, etc behind the scenes.  Our script will open i mages in Photoshop, size properly, then place into the master page.  If the school only uses 4 photos for their calander, we then rotate the 4 master spreads throughtout the calendar and do not utilize the other 48.  Hopefully, this makes a bit more sense?  Then we have our monthly calendars as master pages as well because we did not have enough time this year to utilize the data merge feature for that part..so, we did these the same way.  Again, I am not saying we cant be more efficient (which sounds like that may be the case) with how we utilize InDesign, I just think some of this has always been "if it aint broke, dont fix it". 

                  • 6. Re: InDesign 5.5 slowness when using master pages....PLEASE HELP
                    Peter Spier Most Valuable Participant (Moderator)

                    pwhite2315 wrote:

                     

                    Basically, we have 52 master pages for the customer to be able to have 52 different photos as a backdrop on their weekly calendars (spread) 

                    OK, that's pretty weird, from my way of thinking. I'd use one master for 52 pages and place the photos on the document pages, not the masters.

                    • 7. Re: InDesign 5.5 slowness when using master pages....PLEASE HELP
                      pwhite2315 Level 1

                      File size has been one reason we have utilized these master pages like this.  Also, we need to still sometimes edit the photos on the master pages (moving so focal point is correct) and do not want to have to do this multiple times if placing on reg. pages.  still doesnt really answer what has actually changed with Indesign for this to now be an issue though.  Thanks for the input and we will look into this issue.

                      • 8. Re: InDesign 5.5 slowness when using master pages....PLEASE HELP
                        John Hawkinson Level 5

                        100-200 master pages.  We have NEVER had speed issues working within InDesign before (ie just turning layers on and off takes 3-4 seconds each, etc).  I noticed when I deleted all but a few master pages, the performance is as it should be.  Why in 5.5 is this an issue now with us?

                        You should raise this issue with Adobe before more releases come out and perpetuate this performance regression.


                        Can you share a sample file that demonstrates this?

                        • 9. Re: InDesign 5.5 slowness when using master pages....PLEASE HELP
                          Christopher_Engelhardt Level 1

                          Okay so your company is using the master pages as sort of a template for the calender backgrounds, do I have that right? I agree with John it would be interesting to see a sample file of this. I have family who works alot in the publishing industry and I've never heard of this kind of setup before.

                          • 10. Re: InDesign 5.5 slowness when using master pages....PLEASE HELP
                            pwhite2315 Level 1

                            I will be happy to share a file with either of you, however, file size is a bit too large to post on here as upload limit of 2MB.  Yes Chris, you are correct.  There is probably not too many people out there that...first, does what we do and second, utilizes ID like we do....so we are very unique in that aspect.  I do think we will contact Adobe to let them know issues we are having as I am sure there will be updates right around the corner.

                            • 11. Re: InDesign 5.5 slowness when using master pages....PLEASE HELP
                              John Hawkinson Level 5
                              I will be happy to share a file with either of you, however, file size is a bit too large to post on here as upload limit of 2MB.

                              Actually, this forum doesn't permit file attachments at all.

                              I've private-messaged you with some options.

                              • 13. Re: InDesign 5.5 slowness when using master pages....PLEASE HELP
                                pwhite2315 Level 1

                                Christopher....i sent you a message to your Gmail acct.

                                • 14. Re: InDesign 5.5 slowness when using master pages....PLEASE HELP
                                  John Hawkinson Level 5

                                  Our files have anywhere between 100-200 master pages.  We have NEVER had speed issues working within InDesign before (ie just turning layers on and off takes 3-4 seconds each, etc).

                                  At first I tried toggling the visibility of all layers, and that was slow in CS4 as well, but then I tried a single layer. In CS4, 0.7 seconds, versus 8-9 seconds in CS5, depending on whether I was hiding or showing. (Even worse the first time.)

                                   

                                  You should raise this issue with Adobe before more releases come out and perpetuate this performance regression.

                                   

                                  I don't usually do this, but you piqued my interest. I filed Bug #3125326, "10x slowdown toggling layer visibility with many master pages" on your behalf. I would suggest that the chances of getting a fix for this problem deployed in CS6 (much less prior to it) are low at this time, so set your expectations appropriately. I have not explored to see if there are any workarounds (is it only a certain *kind* of master page that does it? Does it relate to your chosen master page hierarchy? Is it the mere presence of master pages that does it?).

                                   

                                  I don't know if it is the case that you can delete the unused master pages in your workflow once you have settled on one -- you can always bring them back in from another template document later if need be.

                                  • 15. Re: InDesign 5.5 slowness when using master pages....PLEASE HELP
                                    pwhite2315 Level 1

                                    John, Thanks for looking at that as well as reporting it!   Yes, it appears to be all the files we have with multiple master pages.  I will look into the hierarchy as well as the types to rule those out.  Again, I deleted most all of the master pages in the file I sent you and speed is as it should be.

                                     

                                    We have discussed work arounds (plan B's) but have not decided what to do.  Yes, that is one thing we were discussing (deleting unused). 

                                    • 16. Re: InDesign 5.5 slowness when using master pages....PLEASE HELP
                                      Peter Spier Most Valuable Participant (Moderator)

                                      deleting unused stuff is always a good idea. A clean file is a happy file.

                                      • 17. Re: InDesign 5.5 slowness when using master pages....PLEASE HELP
                                        John Hawkinson Level 5

                                        Peter:

                                        deleting unused stuff is always a good idea. A clean file is a happy file.

                                        *shrug*, opinions differ.

                                         

                                        I think people spend far too much time deleting things they think are unnecessary or excessive, and then triple that time trying to recover from stuff they should never have deleted. I particularly differ with strongly with the Blatner/Rankin recommendation (http://www.creativepro.com/article/drop-20-pounds-indesign) to keep your files slim by removing extra items, things on the pasteboard, etc., etc.

                                         

                                        I want those things if they make my workflow work better. I don't care about disk space until or unless it impacts performance or my space management (we'd have to be talking gigabytes here).

                                         

                                        If I want to be able to switch master pages at a moment's notice, I want to keep them in my document. Not have to pull them in from some template somewher else, especially one that might have gotten out of sync with my document and evolved since my document was created from it (for instance).

                                         

                                        Now, in this case, clearly there's a performance issue. But in the general case, I reject the much-offered claim that it's advantageous to keep your files "svelte."

                                         

                                        Of course, one ends up pushing the app more to the margins, and at the margins that's where you are more likely to have trouble, both perforamancewise and functionalitywise. But I like to think I can trust the software until it fails me repeatedly and I walk around with egg on my face. Call it calculated naivete.

                                         

                                        Anyhow, I definitely recognize reasonable people can disagree on this point.

                                        • 18. Re: InDesign 5.5 slowness when using master pages....PLEASE HELP
                                          John Hawkinson Level 5

                                          pwhite2315:

                                          I don't usually do this, but you piqued my interest. I filed Bug #3125326, "10x slowdown toggling layer visibility with many master pages" on your behalf. I would suggest that the chances of getting a fix for this problem deployed in CS6 (much less prior to it) are low at this time, so set your expectations appropriately. I have not explored to see if there are any workarounds

                                          Adobe notes that most of the time is spent generating document page previews, per Preferences > File Handling > Saving InDesign Files: Always Save Preview Images with Documents, and that turning off those previews is a viable workaround. Obviously this isn't a fix, but assuming that your workflow is compatible with this, it should help.

                                           

                                          (You could also script only enabling that preference at the time of a file save...)

                                          • 20. Re: InDesign 5.5 slowness when using master pages....PLEASE HELP
                                            pwhite2315 Level 1

                                            John,

                                             

                                            At first glance this morning, it looks like turning that preference off has significantly increased the speed   I need to look around more and ensure that all is OK for that to be off, etc.  WOW...you may have just saved a TON of headaches for us!!!!   I will keep you posted and as always...THANK YOU for your help.