1 2 Previous Next 60 Replies Latest reply on Mar 6, 2012 12:01 PM by Noel Carboni

    Printing Problems - CS5

    Tafflad Level 1

      Going nuts here - just wasted a whole pack of photographic paper, and about 50% of my cartridges, trying to print one picture.
       
      First off .. CS5 and a new HP c140 Photosmart Printer .... this is a very capable printer which prints first class color prints from all other apps.

      Word, ppt, gallery, etc.

      My monitor (on which it looks fine) uses Adobe RGB(1988) as the .cim color profile in W7   


      I have pics that look perfect on screen ... but when printed all blacks are green or blue.
       
      In print settings ... it has printer as detected correctly
          I have tried  ..   Color Management  > printer manages color
       
      Get warning "triangle" to enable printer color management.
      - and in print settings colour management is set to "colorsmart/srgb"
      with alternative options of "Adobe RGB" or "Application managed colors"   
       
      Even when set to Printer manage color and print settings set to Colorsmart/RGB it still fails to print correct colors.
       


      I have also tried setting Color Management to be "Photoshop manage colors"
      Gives warning "triangle" to disable printer color management.
      and then in print settings the same options of "colorsmart/srgb"
      with alternative options of "Adobe RGB" or "Application managed colors"
       

      Even when Colr Mngt set to Photoshop manage colors, and print settings set to Application managed colors - it still fails to print correctly.

       
      I know it must be settings ... but I'm stumped.

       


      I only want to set it up to use this printer - I don't send things to print shops.

       

      My assumptions are that this should be "Printer managers cpolor"  and in print setings - set it to "Adobe RGB profile"

       

      screen snapshot of current print settings here ...http://i771.photobucket.com/albums/xx351/Tafflad/printsetting.jpg

       

      Still fails to print properly all backs are in vivid green. ..

        • 1. Re: Printing Problems - CS5
          Tafflad Level 1

          OK .. settings changed to be Ps control at PC and printer .. still the same colours way off ... all blacks are vivid green.

          This is how settings now look:

           

          [url]http://i771.photobucket.com/albums/xx351/Tafflad/settings.jpg[/url]

           

          Any suggestions appreciated

          • 2. Re: Printing Problems - CS5
            Level 7

            You didn't select your printer profile -- you selected Adobe RGB by mistake.

            You need to select the profile for your printer model and paper type.

            • 3. Re: Printing Problems - CS5
              John Danek Level 4

              Sometimes, in a photographic workflow, you can print RGB images until the cows come home.  But, it sounds like something is being overlooked in your Photoshop Color settings.  You've made your adjustments in the Print dialog with not much success.  Post your PS settings so we can see what's going on there.    For instance, what is your Rendering Intent set to?

              • 4. Re: Printing Problems - CS5
                John Danek Level 4

                OK, I just checked your printer settings screen shot.  As Chris suggests above, select the printer and paper.  Also, Use the same settings in Photoshop's Color Settings ( i.e., Rendering Intent, Black Point Compensation ) in the print setup.  Try using "Perceptual" as your Rendering Intent and select "Use Black Point Compensation" ( which is de-selected in your screen grab ).  In Photoshop, use the Info palette to get a reading of your file's Black.  Should be 0r-0g-0b, or less than 5 in each channel. 

                • 5. Re: Printing Problems - CS5
                  Noel Carboni Level 8

                  I don't know about yours, but some HP printers require the image be delivered in the sRGB profile.  My (ancient) HP 932c is like that - I need to set the profile in the Print dialog to Photoshop Manages Colors and the sRGB IEC61966-2.1 profile in order to get good prints.

                   

                  -Noel

                  • 6. Re: Printing Problems - CS5
                    Tafflad Level 1

                    Made changes suggested & updated screen grab to show settings:

                    http://i771.photobucket.com/albums/xx351/Tafflad/Computer/settings2.jpg

                     

                     

                    In this one it shows I have color handling set to "Photoshop Manages Color"   and in print settings, color mananagement set to "application managed colors"

                     

                    I also set to perceptual & ticked Black compensation .... still the same Blacks print as green, and all colors off.

                     

                    As requested I also loaded screen grab of Ps color settings:

                    http://i771.photobucket.com/albums/xx351/Tafflad/Computer/colorsettings.jpg

                     

                    I also tried the other suggestion .. leaving PS set to "Photoshop Manages Color"  and setting printer settings to "Colorsmart/sRGB"  :-

                    http://i771.photobucket.com/albums/xx351/Tafflad/Computer/sRGB.jpg

                     

                    Still the same.

                     

                    I must have something fundamentally set wrong in Ps.

                    • 7. Re: Printing Problems - CS5
                      D Fosse Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                      This is your problem - the printer/paper profile should be here, not Adobe RGB:

                      settings2.jpg

                      • 8. Re: Printing Problems - CS5
                        Tafflad Level 1

                        OK ... looked at that drop down box ... wow - a lot of choices.

                         

                        I just selected  "sRGB IEC61966-2.1"   i.e. the same as is deafult in the 'document field'   (now looking much better)

                         

                        Is this what I should set there ?   there are a lot of options to choose from

                         

                        My printer is a HP Photosmart Premium C410

                        paper is Kodak Premium Picture Paper - Ultra Glossy

                        • 9. Re: Printing Problems - CS5
                          Noel Carboni Level 8

                          Just like what I have to set with my old HP printer, but it's a different model than yours so I wouldn't be willing to bet on the settings needing to be the same.  Do any of your profile choices in that menu seem specific to your HP printer or the type of paper?  If not, then it's probably the same as what I have here.

                           

                          As far as getting your color to match closely between display, printer, and external print houses, I sense that you may be looking for "what should I set" types of answers, and there really aren't any one size fits all answers.  All the choices are there for reasons.  You may have to strive to understand color-management at a greater depth to get things to match closely.

                           

                          -Noel

                          • 10. Re: Printing Problems - CS5
                            D Fosse Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                            No, not sRGB, it should be a specific profile for the printer/paper/ink combo. The profile should be named something like "HP c140 premium glossy" or "HP c140 matte" or whatever paper you're using. These profiles should be supplied by HP and installed alongside the printer driver.

                             

                            Then in the printer driver you must disable printer color management so you don't get double profiling. But you still need to pick the correct paper type (this has to do with amount of ink).

                             

                            If you don't have any such profiles listed, it means that profiles aren't supplied by HP. But since there is an "Application manages color" setting in the printer driver there has to be profiles. Otherwise that setting makes no sense.

                            • 11. Re: Printing Problems - CS5
                              D Fosse Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                              HP has this idea that things should be "simple" for the user, and it ends up being complicated no end, because there's no way you can influence what happens or even know what's going on under the hood.

                               

                              Epson is a model of transparency in this regard.

                              • 12. Re: Printing Problems - CS5
                                Noel Carboni Level 8

                                Dag, it seems to me, after MUCH experimentation in my case, that after having received the information in a device independent profile the printer driver must be doing its own things to match ink volumes, etc. to the paper, since the driver IS very concerned with the paper type.  I think HP may have taken a totally different approach than, say, Epson because I wasn't able to find any evidence of paper-specific profiles.

                                 

                                -Noel

                                • 13. Re: Printing Problems - CS5
                                  Noel Carboni Level 8

                                  One thing, though...  I was able to see posterization in a continuous tone test pattern with Printer Manages Colors, while Photoshop Manages Colors (using sRGB as the target profile) led to nice smooth output.

                                   

                                  -Noel

                                  • 14. Re: Printing Problems - CS5
                                    D Fosse Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                    Yes, I had an HP printer some time ago and I think that's the way it's supposed to work.  But what color data does it expect? Should you feed it sRGB exclusively, can it handle CMYK content (relevant if you print from InDesign), what about Adobe RGB or ProPhoto? Should you convert everything before you print? That's complication

                                    • 15. Re: Printing Problems - CS5
                                      Tafflad Level 1

                                      >No, not sRGB, it should be a specific profile for the printer/paper/ink combo.

                                       

                                      There isn't anything for  HP listed ..

                                       

                                      I have installed the full HP driver suite ... but nothing shows in Ps to select.

                                       

                                      I guess I could send try asking on their forum .. but usually never gets a response.

                                      • 16. Re: Printing Problems - CS5
                                        Noel Carboni Level 8

                                        I have only ever given it RGB data in the sRGB profile (once I figured out that's what it takes to get the colors right).  I have to admit I'm a little surprised that even new models would still be restricted to sRGB, but I suppose they may not be...  If one turns off the color management in Photoshop and enables it in the printer (the default as I recall) it could conceivably do a better job than my particular combo does. 

                                         

                                        Somewhere around here I still have my test prints.  The colors came out generally right with the printer doing the color-management, but there were inaccuracies (because of limited depth math in the printer driver?) that while probably being hidden in a real world image would no doubt degrade it.

                                         

                                        Now you start to understand about 0.15% more why I'm fond of a soup-to-nuts sRGB workflow. 

                                         

                                        Mmmmm, soup.... 

                                         

                                        -Noel

                                        • 17. Re: Printing Problems - CS5
                                          D Fosse Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                          Tafflad, in that case you should not use "Photoshop manages color". Use "Printer manages color" and basically forget the PS print dialog. Concentrate on the printer driver dialog and make all your settings there.

                                           

                                          And since I don't have that printer I can't help you there. But start by printing an sRGB file and see if you can get that right first.

                                          • 18. Re: Printing Problems - CS5
                                            Noel Carboni Level 8

                                            Yes, +1 to D Fosse's recommendation.

                                             

                                            -Noel

                                            • 19. Re: Printing Problems - CS5
                                              Tafflad Level 1

                                              I'm confused 

                                               

                                              If I understand what you are saying what I have now is the opposite?

                                               

                                              i.e I have

                                              I also tried the other suggestion .. leaving PS set to "Photoshop Manages Color"  and setting printer settings to "Colorsmart/sRGB

                                              http://i771.photobucket.com/albums/xx351/Tafflad/Computer/PsPrintoptions.jpg

                                               

                                              Are you saying (above) that I should have Ps set to "Printer Manager Color"   which was what I thought I shouldn't set .... if I do set thhis then what would I set at printer setting   Colorsmart/sRGB  ?

                                              • 20. Re: Printing Problems - CS5
                                                D Fosse Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                                Noel, they can probably handle Adobe RGB or even ProPhoto (not so sure about CMYK though). They should, because modern inks can do much better than sRGB.

                                                 

                                                It just...annoys me when I'm not given choices up front so I can make my own decisions, instead I have to rely on some secret sauce that I don't know the ingredients of. And it makes troubleshooting difficult when it doesn't work as expected.

                                                • 21. Re: Printing Problems - CS5
                                                  Noel Carboni Level 8

                                                  I think at this point, because you have something none of us have, you need to do some of your own experimentation and report back.  My driver does not have a Colorsmart/sRGB setting.

                                                   

                                                  Can you not experiment with the same piece of paper (but using a different small part of it) over and over?

                                                   

                                                  -Noel

                                                  • 22. Re: Printing Problems - CS5
                                                    D Fosse Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                                    Yes, use printer manages color. You have no printer profiles, so the normal procedure won't work. You have no choice.

                                                    • 23. Re: Printing Problems - CS5
                                                      D Fosse Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                                      The colorsmart profile is probably just an ordinary sRGB profile rebranded by HP. You won't need it anyway as long as the PS print dialog is left at Printer manages color.

                                                      • 24. Re: Printing Problems - CS5
                                                        Noel Carboni Level 8

                                                        D Fosse wrote:

                                                         

                                                        Noel, they can probably handle Adobe RGB or even ProPhoto (not so sure about CMYK though). They should, because modern inks can do much better than sRGB.

                                                          

                                                        Well, I can only speak to my particular HP printer, old as it is.  The cartridges are new, but I imagine they're made to the original specs.
                                                        I just did a test where I created a highly saturated ProPhoto RGB test image and printed it two different ways - Photoshop Manages Colors (to sRGB) vs Printer Manages Colors.  The Gamut Warning showed that a good bit of the image is actually out of gamut for sRGB.


                                                        I couldn't detect an obvious gamut difference visually, so I photographed the results, figuring I could convert it so that no channel was clipped, and flatten the image well enough to do some 1%-ish measurements using the color of the paper surrounding the test swatches as a guide.  Doing this, I couldn't detect a significant difference between the two, leading me to believe my particular setup, for whatever reason, is truly limited to something very close to the sRGB gamut.


                                                        Here is the test image:
                                                        PrinterGamutTest.jpg
                                                        Here's the result of photographing the two test swatches.  One's a bit smoother than the other but I'm just not seeing a significant gamut difference.
                                                        PrinterGamutTestOutputPhoto.jpg

                                                        This forum editor is acting up!

                                                        -Noel
                                                        • 25. Re: Printing Problems - CS5
                                                          Tafflad Level 1

                                                          If I set to "Printer Manages Color" .... then do I set it to "document- proflie sRGB IEC61966-2.1"    or "Proof"   ?

                                                           

                                                          If I choose "document - proflie sRGB IEC61966-2.1"  

                                                           

                                                          Then I cannot set the option mentioned in thread (Black point compensation) but I can still select 'perceptual'

                                                           

                                                          On printer settings following above I set it to Colorsmart/sRGB ...  only other options to choose from are "Applictaion manages colors" or "Adobe RGB"

                                                           

                                                          So it looks like :

                                                           

                                                          http://i771.photobucket.com/albums/xx351/Tafflad/Computer/PrinterManagesColor.jpg

                                                           

                                                          Test print looks same as the previous one ... but at least not the initial fault

                                                          • 26. Re: Printing Problems - CS5
                                                            Noel Carboni Level 8

                                                            Yes, those are the Photoshop Print dialog settings we're suggesting.

                                                             

                                                            What are your other choices in the HP Photosmart Prem C410 series Properties page for the Color management field at the lower-left?

                                                             

                                                            -Noel

                                                            • 27. Re: Printing Problems - CS5
                                                              Tafflad Level 1

                                                              options are :

                                                               

                                                              # Colorsmart/sRGB

                                                              # Adobe RGB (1998)

                                                              # Application Manged Colors

                                                              • 28. Re: Printing Problems - CS5
                                                                Farrellart Level 3

                                                                I know my printer is an Epson, but this might help.

                                                                 

                                                                I bought an Epson 3800 a few years back and when I started to print I always had what looked like a double profile print.

                                                                 

                                                                I learnt to set up the following Photoshop dialog box parameters:

                                                                 

                                                                Click print, use Colour Handled: Photoshop .....and Printer Profile set to Epson 3800( if you scroll down you might find your HP Printer name in the  printer  profiles ) - Not AdobeRGb or sRGB etc .

                                                                 

                                                                In the HP printer driver set up to use no colour management.

                                                                 

                                                                Test print.

                                                                 

                                                                Give it try on a small test strip. A5

                                                                 

                                                                At the time, this wasted a lot of paper and very expensive ink, since I worked it out every print is 90%+ perfect now.

                                                                 

                                                                I hope this helps.

                                                                 

                                                                Chris

                                                                • 29. Re: Printing Problems - CS5
                                                                  Tafflad Level 1

                                                                  Under Prolifes lots of options about p[aper ... but nothing for any HP printer.

                                                                  In the print drive there is no option for 'no color management'  the one I assume would get you that is "application manages color"

                                                                  • 30. Re: Printing Problems - CS5
                                                                    Farrellart Level 3

                                                                    Uuuumm.

                                                                     

                                                                    Are there any profiles on the install cd or HP online....I have never used HP so I don't really know, but, love troubleshooting. It sounds like Photoshop is either not talking to the printer properly or there's a conflict between Photoshop colour management and the printer driver.

                                                                     

                                                                    Also, your profile might be corrupt, try downloading the C140 profiles again from the HP website or reinstall from the CD. This might resolve the issue - if using Vista or Win 7 always right click and install with admin rights checked - saves a lot of hours of head scratching sometimes.

                                                                     

                                                                    Chris

                                                                    • 31. Re: Printing Problems - CS5
                                                                      Noel Carboni Level 8

                                                                      Chris, HP and Epson need fundamentally different approaches.

                                                                       

                                                                      Tafflad, you might want to try a test print after setting Color management (lower left of the printer driver dialog) to Adobe RGB (1998) and see how that makes the prints differ from the Colorsmart/sRGB setting.  I'm not really sure I understand what they could be expecting there...  A way to set the print gamut, or maybe specification of an intermediate internal profile?  Like D Fosse said above, a bit too much simplification, not enough solid information from HP.  What does their Help say that setting does?

                                                                       

                                                                      -Noel

                                                                      • 32. Re: Printing Problems - CS5
                                                                        Farrellart Level 3

                                                                        Unfortunatrly I have no direct HP experience...

                                                                         

                                                                        I just hoped my solutions might help or act as guideline .....I realise they are two different techs.....If I feel I can help I will try.

                                                                         

                                                                         

                                                                        Chris:)

                                                                        • 33. Re: Printing Problems - CS5
                                                                          Tafflad Level 1

                                                                          I think that is what I started with in OP ...

                                                                          All blackss printed as greens

                                                                           

                                                                          I have logged a ticket with HP support ... I'll post back here what they say about profiles.

                                                                           

                                                                          The 'Help'   .. well didn't, all the descriptiuons don't tally, obvoioulsy not been updated for W7.

                                                                          • 34. Re: Printing Problems - CS5
                                                                            Noel Carboni Level 8

                                                                            Well, at this point don't you have a workable solution, Tafflad?  Just use the Printer Manages Color in the Photoshop dialog and the ColorSmart/sRGB setting in the printer driver dialog.

                                                                             

                                                                            Perhaps I've missed the mention of a secondary problem...  Are you seeing a problem with using this approach?

                                                                             

                                                                            -Noel

                                                                            • 35. Re: Printing Problems - CS5
                                                                              Lundberg02 Level 3

                                                                              Pewlett-Hackard has never understood printing. Ten years ago or so, my son had an HP printer on a Win machine. All prints came out blue no matter what we did. Junked it.

                                                                              • 36. Re: Printing Problems - CS5
                                                                                Level 7

                                                                                HP's large format group understands printing, and the Indigo group.

                                                                                But their consumer products are all over the place.

                                                                                • 37. Re: Printing Problems - CS5
                                                                                  Tafflad Level 1

                                                                                  Yep .. I do have a wokable solution and thanks to all for the help to get to this.

                                                                                   

                                                                                  As mentioned, I have logged a ticket with HP, to see if they will supply specific printer/paper profiles ... and I will report back if they do.

                                                                                  • 38. Re: Printing Problems - CS5
                                                                                    Lundberg02 Level 3

                                                                                    Goos luck with that ticket. They're made in Elbonia, you might as well complain to Dilbert.

                                                                                    • 39. Re: Printing Problems - CS5
                                                                                      gator soup Level 4

                                                                                      >> Yep .. I do have a wokable solution

                                                                                       

                                                                                      it might be helpful to post your solution for others

                                                                                       

                                                                                      that likely includes

                                                                                       

                                                                                      1. "selecting the profile for your printer model and paper type" (not Adobe RGB) -- as Chris Cox pointed out in post #2
                                                                                      2. setting up a custom System default monitor profile (not "My monitor (on which it looks fine) uses Adobe RGB (1988) as the .cim color profile in W7" if that means you are using that profile for the default monitor profile)
                                                                                      3. converting your file to sRGB, then in File> Print
                                                                                      4. using "Printer Manages Colors" in Photoshop, and
                                                                                      5. ColorSmart/sRGB setting in the printer driver dialog (post #34)

                                                                                       

                                                                                      may also want to make your Photoshop color settings more safe so profile issues are less likely to skew your results (at least untill you get everything figured out)

                                                                                      settings.jpg

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