8 Replies Latest reply on Mar 10, 2012 5:16 AM by Peter Spier

    Saddle-stitch printing issues content runs into other pages, blank pages not printed

    CocoFormula Level 1

      So I just finished printing a booklet in saddle-stitch content near the inside edge of another page are printed as cut-off on another page and basically if I have actual content that goes near the inside edge it gets placed as a cut off on another page which is awkard. I have worked with content going to the edges but that was with color that was the same on both pages. I don't know if it's my printing method(the set-up that is wrong) which might be the reason for my next issue which is blank pages were left out I used them since I wanted the copyright sideby side with the title pages. I set it up to print blank pages but it didn't print any pages unless there was content.

       

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        • 1. Re: Saddle-stitch printing issues content runs into other pages, blank pages not printed
          Michael Gianino Level 4

          It sounds like you're using File>Print Booklet, which I have never used myself, but it sounds like you are getting a combination of creep and drift. Creep is the amount that the pages need to be moved away from the spine to compensate for the number of sheets that are stacked in the saddle stitch. The more pages in your saddle, the more creep you will need. If you have the creep set at zero, try a larger number, but I couldn't say what number will work for you in this instance. If you want to try printing to a PDF or PS file and viewing it in Acrobat, that might be a way to judge what setting works best without having to waste paper and toner in the experiment.

           

          The other part of the problem might be that the image is drifting within the sheet it is printing onto. The closer you place any image to an edge of the paper, the more you will notice when the image drifts a bit.

          • 2. Re: Saddle-stitch printing issues content runs into other pages, blank pages not printed
            Peter Spier Most Valuable Participant (Moderator)

            Looks like you've included an inside bleed to me.  In the figure above, is that a single sheet, or are we looking at a badly assembled booklet (the drift Daniel mentioned).

            • 3. Re: Saddle-stitch printing issues content runs into other pages, blank pages not printed
              Peter Spier Most Valuable Participant (Moderator)

              Sorry, the drift MICHAEL mentioned.

               

              It's too early....

              • 5. Re: Saddle-stitch printing issues content runs into other pages, blank pages not printed
                Michael Gianino Level 4

                I think Daniel was saddle stitching in the lion's den while I was rowing the boat ashore (which is why I was drifting).

                • 6. Re: Saddle-stitch printing issues content runs into other pages, blank pages not printed
                  CocoFormula Level 1

                  Yes I was in fact using File>Print Booklet. This is a picture of a single sheet basically that image on the right is cutting into the image on the left the white space on the right is just where it didn't print on and probably where I would have cut off the bleed. There is an inside bleed in the sense that in the setup I did .125 inches on all sides I guess that's messing things up? What exactly is the drift? When you say the edge you mean the edge of the inside of the spread or the bleed on the outside? Is there anyway of not having this drift or creep or controlling it?

                  • 7. Re: Saddle-stitch printing issues content runs into other pages, blank pages not printed
                    Michael Gianino Level 4

                    CocoFormula wrote:

                     

                    There is an inside bleed in the sense that in the setup I did .125 inches on all sides I guess that's messing things up?

                    I'm not clear what that means. Do your individual pages have visible image that expands beyond the page area, with the intent to trim it after printing? That's what bleed means, and it wouldn't be possible for a saddle stitch. The reason is that the two pages of a spread are printed on a single sheet of paper, and not cut into individual leaves (pages) the way you would have on a perfect bound or a spiral bound. For that reason, you wouldn't want image from a page on one side of a spread to go into the page on the other side. There is some debate on whether bleed at the spine is necessary for perfect bound books, and a good case can be made for bleed at the spine for spiral bound, but not for saddle stitch.

                     

                    CocoFormula wrote:

                    What exactly is the drift?

                    That's probably not a term that everyone uses, but what I meant was that InDesign is very precise on where it places text, graphics and objects relative to the page. That being said, when the page is printed to an office printer, the placement can be quite a bit less precise. It's really more like applying a rubber stamp to a piece of paper. The image within the stamp will always be the same (unless you move your hand while you're stamping), but the position of the stamp in relation to the page is determined by you, and may not be exactly the same from one page to the next. Printers are pretty good about maintaining the image, but that image may drift by some very small amount from one printing to the next. This amount is less noticable the farther the image is from the edge of the page. If the image in InDesign is 1 milimeter from the edge of the page, it may be placed at 2 milimeters on one printing, and zero on another. You would be able to see the difference. On the other hand, one milimeter one way or the other wouldn't be noticed if the margin was a half inch of white space between the page edge and the copy.

                    CocoFormula wrote:

                    Is there anyway of not having this drift or creep or controlling it?

                    If your intent is to do the print run from an office printer or networked copy machine, then probably not. If that's the case, you may want to design your piece to where drift is less noticable. If you are going to use offset printing, the control is greater, but it varies by the type of press used, the skill of the pressman, and the skill of the bindery person who runs the cutter and folder. Either way, running your image right up to the spine in a saddle stitched book you run the risk of some of the image going into the other page.

                     

                    As far as crreep goes, there is a setting in the Print Booklet window that will push the pages of a spread apart at different amounts within a book. For example, in a 16-page book, there wll be less spread than an 80-page book, because the 80-page book will need to wrap the first sheet of paper (the one that has page 80 and 1 on one side, and page 2 and 79 on the other) around a thicker stack of sheets than the 16-page book will need. Also, the amount of spread on that first sheet will be greater than the inner-most sheet, and it will gradually change across the sheets of the book. Allowing for creep is part of the imposition process. If your book is being professionally printed, the pre-press people will make those determinations based on the number of pages and the thickness of the paper that will be used. It's best for designers to not impose their own books if someone else will be printing them, because the pre-press people will know aspects of the process that the designer won't, and any imposition will likely need to be reworked if the designer does it wrong.Screenshot.jpg

                    • 8. Re: Saddle-stitch printing issues content runs into other pages, blank pages not printed
                      Peter Spier Most Valuable Participant (Moderator)

                      You don't need image that extends beyond the spine to have trouble with inside bleed. The bleed area for inside bleed is, in fact, the spine edge of the opposite page, so if you've set an inside bleed of .125, for example, anything that is within .125 of the spine on the opposite page will be added when you include the inside bleed area.

                       

                      In this particualr case it looks like you have art on opposite pages that ends at thr spine and you've included an inside bleed in your settings. Setting the inside bleed to 0 should solve the problem. That said, if you actually really need the inside bleed, you don't want to use the opposite page for it. Instead you want to split the spread and extend your art at the spine out past the edge. See InDesignSecrets » Blog Archive » Breaking Pages Apart to Bleed Off a Spine