7 Replies Latest reply on Mar 9, 2012 7:45 AM by Gernot Hoffmann

    soft proofing and colour profile

    savispud Level 1

      Dear All,

      having problems getting consistent archival inkjet prints from the places I have tried. I am now looking at 'soft proofing' which I suspect is not without its pearls. The problems I experienced before where the images were not converted to the correct profile was that sometimes they would print out, at great cost correctly and sometime they would not, again at great cost. If the image is converted to the correct colour profile, in this case Hahnemule, will the embedded profile that the image will be printed out consistently and 2 different days?

        • 1. Re: soft proofing and colour profile
          c.pfaffenbichler Level 9

          If the image is converted to the correct colour profile, in this case Hahnemule, will the embedded profile that the image will be printed out consistently and 2 different days?

          That would depend on the printer and how diligently it is maintained and profiled.

          To evaluate the aberration you could measure the control wedge (that any paper-proof would include).

           

          Could you please elaborate what it’s all about?

          • 2. Re: soft proofing and colour profile
            c.pfaffenbichler Level 9

            And I don’t quite see what you are intending with soft proofing in your current workflow – do you want to forego »paper« completely?

             

            Do you regularly calibrate your monitor and are the viewing conditions constant (no big uncovered windows, other monitors that reflect in the screen etc.)?

            • 3. Re: soft proofing and colour profile
              savispud Level 1

              Archival inkjet prints are expensive as you know. The places I have tried a: can not reproduce what is on the monitor b: can not print the same print to  the same standard on 2 seperate days.

              Not sure what you mean by  :

              "To evaluate the aberration you could measure the control wedge (that any paper-proof would include)."

              but the places I have used seem not to know about paper profiles so I can not be sure that maintaining the printer correctly.

              • 4. Re: soft proofing and colour profile
                Gernot Hoffmann Level 3

                The images should be in Adobe RGB(1998) or in sRGB, in either case with

                embedded profiles, but only one type for each poster.

                The printer should apply the mode "Use embedded source profile" and a

                Destination profile which is valid for the paper and the printing process itself.

                Hahnemühle says almost nothing.

                A few parameters: paper weight in g/m², resolution in dpi, dithering mode

                (rasterization), CMYK or CMYK+LightC+LightM, or other combinations with

                several grays, or with Orange and Green. Considering the fact, that inkjets

                use often additionally a linearization profile, there is a good chance of

                operator mistakes.

                All this should be fixed in advance. Then the appropriate profile can be used

                for softproofing.

                 

                In my humble opinion, a FOGRA control wedge is used for Proof Printing,

                which means "Simulate offset printing appearance by inkjet".

                At least I'm using the control wedge only in this situation. It requires a

                spectrophotometer, by the way. 

                 

                In any case of doubt I would print a typical image with wellknown appearance

                in the same process.

                For instance p.4 or p.5 here:

                http://www.fho-emden.de/~hoffmann/a3gencolorhigh.pdf

                 

                Best regards --Gernot Hoffmann

                 

                With respect to the last post #3: if the printing operators are not familiar with

                color profiles, then the situation is hopeless.

                 

                Message was edited by: Gernot Hoffmann

                • 5. Re: soft proofing and colour profile
                  c.pfaffenbichler Level 9

                  Sorry, I see now that »archival prints« means something widely different from a proof, so my first post does indeed not apply.

                  • 6. Re: soft proofing and colour profile
                    savispud Level 1

                    Even if I completely understood everything you said not having direct access to the printer I could not impliment them. I take your point that if they are not using paper profiles they are a lost cause. I have tried converting some existing files to the correct profiles. That create another set of problems. It will take some recreating what I was doing. Ah Well! next time start from the correct profile.

                    Thanks for taking the trouble for giving me such full reply.

                    • 7. Re: soft proofing and colour profile
                      Gernot Hoffmann Level 3

                      savispud,

                       

                      no trouble at all, I'm glad being able to help you.

                      Some further explanations:

                      I'm printing by two large format inkjets. Both are calibrated.

                      I'm offering only one kind of excellent paper (exception below)

                      and the printing process is very well defined. For example,

                      I don´t offer a speed mode. Previews are created by toner printers,

                      which reveals often problems in PDFs (flattening, color space..).

                       

                      My customers have to tell me their RGB-space or deliver PDFs

                      with embedded profile.

                      It's normally not necessary that they know my printer profiles.

                      The remaining risk is, that some colors are out of gamut (not

                      correctly printable because the machine cannot reproduce some

                      colors).

                      Here comes the Softproof by PhS: this requires the profile which will

                      be used later and actually.

                      If colors are out of gamut, then they can be modified early - not for

                      correctness but for pleasant appearance.

                       

                      An exception: as an experiment I'm printing on Japan paper, a thin

                      partly transparent material. One printer was calibrated for this medium

                      and a reduced resolution. It's obvious that the gamut (space of printable

                      colors) is rather small. In this situation the Softproof is of high value.

                       

                      By the way, I'm working in this field mainly for fun and scientifically,

                      not so much commercially.

                       

                      You may find a  Quality Printer in the Internet. The only problem is

                      the correct exchange of all informations, as discussed here.

                       

                      Best regards --Gernot Hoffmann