21 Replies Latest reply on Mar 13, 2015 6:12 PM by dalstondavid

    INDD 6.0.6 aborts when I try to delete index cross-reference

    poslfit Level 1

      See also http://forums.adobe.com/message/4263687 for a discussion of an identical problem. As requested there, I am starting a separate discussion of the same problem affecting a different person (me).

       

      I am running INDD 6.0.6 on OS X 10.6.8 on a MacBook Pro (2.53 GHz Intel Core 2 Duo). I have an INDD document that is part of a 50-page book. The document includes an index. The index was originally imported from MS Word (from another user, version unknown). I am rewriting the index, editing and re-editing it heavily. I discovered recently that in the index is a cross-reference without a target. To be clear, I'm not talking about a cross-reference in the document text. This is an index entry, created by the New Cross-reference... menu item on the Index pane. It has no target, in that when you look at it with Cross-reference options, there is a first-level Topic, but the Referenced field (below the Type of See also) is empty.

       

      I cannot delete this entry. When I try to delete it, INDD crashes. When INDD recovers, it warns that the document may be corrupt, and if I try to delete it again, INDD crashes. If I try to change the Referenced field, INDD accepts but ignores the change (the pane closes, but the index remains unchanged).

       

      My current workaround is to change the Topic to ZZZ, and add a new index entry (ZZZ : corrupt entry : delete this before shipping), but it's less than satisfactory. What can I do to delete the corrupt index cross-reference?

        • 1. Re: INDD 6.0.6 aborts when I try to delete index cross-reference
          Peter Spier Most Valuable Participant (Moderator)

          I'm not an Index user, so my advice is somewht limitied, but I'd start by exporting the file to .inx, then open that and save with a new name (see Remove minor corruption by exporting) . If it works, replace the original in the book with the new file. It may also help if you have all of the book files open while you are working.

          • 2. Re: INDD 6.0.6 aborts when I try to delete index cross-reference
            poslfit Level 1

            Peter, thank you for the suggestion. As was the case in the original thread, trying to export to .inx or .idml formats causes INDD to crash.

            • 3. Re: INDD 6.0.6 aborts when I try to delete index cross-reference
              luciehaskins@gmail.com

              Poslfit,

               

              Have you reported this problem to Adobe?

               

              Perhaps if multiple people report it, they investigate it further. I know my report of the problem isn't being pursued by Adobe. Even after I duplicated the problem while an Adobe support person viewed remotely, and I sent them the file in question, I received what seemed like a "rote" reply (that was completely unrelated to the indexing module) regarding what to do...

               

              Regards,

              Lucie

               

              PS. My Adobe case number was 0182656288

              • 4. Re: INDD 6.0.6 aborts when I try to delete index cross-reference
                Peter Spier Most Valuable Participant (Moderator)

                We might not learn much, but can you post the crash log to Pastebin.com, then put a link to it here, please?

                • 5. Re: INDD 6.0.6 aborts when I try to delete index cross-reference
                  poslfit Level 1

                  I've posted the most recent crash log to http://poslarchive.com/indesign-bugs/adobe-indesign-cs4_2012-03-13-101101_jjc-macbookpro.c rash . I think this was one where I was trying to export the data.

                   

                  I did report it yesterday to Adobe through https://www.adobe.com/cfusion/mmform/index.cfm?name=wishform but was warned that I might not receive a personal reply. Is there a better way to get their attention?

                  • 6. Re: INDD 6.0.6 aborts when I try to delete index cross-reference
                    Peter Spier Most Valuable Participant (Moderator)

                    John is the man for interpreting these logs, not me, but I see some references to scripting (which might be perfectly normal). Are you running any scripts?

                     

                    As far as getting real attention, you need to open a support case. I'm sure John can tell you more about that, too, when he comes back in.

                    • 7. Re: INDD 6.0.6 aborts when I try to delete index cross-reference
                      luciehaskins@gmail.com Level 1

                      I actually contacted Adobe tech support and talked to a live person about the problem.

                       

                      That's how I got the case number assigned to it. I had hoped that, by taking the time and making the effort to demonstrate the problem to a person viewing it remotely, that would gain more attention. Perhaps I should have found a way to escalate the issue because I never did feel as if the person on the other end really understood the issue... and then the canned reply did little to reassure me.

                       

                      But at that point in time, I was busy with other indexing projects, had already devoted *way* too much time trying to make Adobe understand the issue, and I didn't know what else I could do to get the "right" people hear about the problem.

                      • 8. Re: INDD 6.0.6 aborts when I try to delete index cross-reference
                        Peter Spier Most Valuable Participant (Moderator)

                        Well, call back. You have a case number, and you should be able to escalate to someone who has a prayer of helping. Be aggressive about escalating...

                        • 9. Re: INDD 6.0.6 aborts when I try to delete index cross-reference
                          poslfit Level 1

                          No, I am not running any scripts; it must be part of the export process. Here's another crash log, from just trying to delete the cross-reference. http://poslarchive.com/indesign-bugs/adobe-indesign-cs4_2012-03-13-013555_jjc-macbookpro.c rash.

                           

                          I couldn't find a way to speak to a live person at Adobe tech support without paying $39: is there one? (I bought InDesign as part of CS4 in 2009.) I'm willing to put a reasonable amount of time into pursuing this, but balk at the idea of paying Adobe to tell them about a serious problem with their software.

                          • 10. Re: INDD 6.0.6 aborts when I try to delete index cross-reference
                            Peter Spier Most Valuable Participant (Moderator)

                            I don't think there's any way you'll get help from adobe without paying since you're still on CS4. I did notice, though, in the last report (and should have seen it inthe first one, too -- sorry) that you haven't installed any of the bug fixes that are available.

                             

                            Current version is 6.0.6 for CS4, but if you've got placed Illustrator files you might want to go only as far as 6.0.5 as there's a change in how Illustrator files are sized when relinking in 6.0.6. So install an update, then try again, and post a new log if it still fails.

                            • 11. Re: INDD 6.0.6 aborts when I try to delete index cross-reference
                              luciehaskins@gmail.com Level 1

                              I didn't pay to talk to a person but I can't remember the circumstances around that... it was over 6 months ago... and I was determined not to pay money to speak to a live person about a bug they had in their program. I know it was a tedious effort all in all. Sorry I can't remember more of the specifics of how I ferreted out a person to talk to about this.

                              • 12. Re: INDD 6.0.6 aborts when I try to delete index cross-reference
                                luciehaskins@gmail.com Level 1

                                Peter,

                                This all happened 6 months ago and I haven't encountered the problem with other clients. The only time the problem occurred with with a client who refused to use chapter files for their books... In the meantime, I've convinced the client to go to chapter files and have never had the problem since then.

                                 

                                If it occurs again, I'll contact Adobe and escalate the problem.

                                 

                                Thanks!

                                • 13. Re: INDD 6.0.6 aborts when I try to delete index cross-reference
                                  Peter Spier Most Valuable Participant (Moderator)

                                  The bigger problem is that even if you and someone at Adobe are able to actually figure out what the problem is and that it is, in fact, a bug, there's nothing they can do to help you. There are not going to be any more bug fixes for CS4. My memory is that there were some bugs in Indexing inthe first release of CS4, and at least some of them got fixed, so you should install the patch...

                                  • 14. Re: INDD 6.0.6 aborts when I try to delete index cross-reference
                                    John Hawkinson Level 5

                                    Wow, this was a lot of material in a short time.

                                    I am running INDD 6.0.6 on OS X 10.6.8 o

                                    ...

                                    Here's another crash log, from just trying to delete the cross-reference. http://poslarchive.com/indesign-bugs/adobe-indesign-cs4_2012-03-13-013 555_jjc-macbookpro.crash.

                                    As Peter noted, your crash reports are from 6.0.0. Please explain the discrepancy.

                                     

                                    CS4 itself is nearly ancient software, with CS5 and CS5.5 both out and CS6 around the corner. And obsolete versions of ancient software are not a good place to be...

                                    I couldn't find a way to speak to a live person at Adobe tech support without paying $39: is there one? (I bought InDesign as part of CS4 in 2009.) I'm willing to put a reasonable amount of time into pursuing this, but balk at the idea of paying Adobe to tell them about a serious problem with their software.

                                    Yes. You can pay more than $39. :/

                                    But seriously, if solving this problem isn't worth $40 of your time, it's probably not going to get solved at all.

                                    But again, realistically, Adobe isn't going to do anything for you on CS4. See if you can replicate the problem with the current version. If so, great. If not, well, you know your answer.

                                    But Adobe will give credit you the $39 if your case is a confirmed bug, which it surely will be; so at least that's something.

                                     

                                    Sorry I can't be more helpful.

                                    1 person found this helpful
                                    • 15. Re: INDD 6.0.6 aborts when I try to delete index cross-reference
                                      luciehaskins@gmail.com Level 1

                                      My bug was in CS5.0... as I reported in my original topic...

                                      • 16. Re: INDD 6.0.6 aborts when I try to delete index cross-reference
                                        poslfit Level 1

                                        The crash log notwithstanding, when I look at About InDesign... it tells me it's 6.0.6, which I think was the last version. Thank you for the frankness regarding Adobe's lack of interest in fixing its bugs. It's good to know that Adobe would only want to borrow my $39 long enough to confirm that there exists a bug that won't be fixed. I'll be sure to check to see if the bug's still there when we eventually upgrade to a more recent version. Does anyone know if the Index feature has progressed any? The version I'm using seems clumsy in a few ways (can't expand the topic list window to a reasonable size, or navigate it quickly using the keyboard; there isn't a way to automatically generate continuation text for index entries that span a page break; index sections have to be A B C... Z).

                                        • 17. Re: INDD 6.0.6 aborts when I try to delete index cross-reference
                                          Peter Spier Most Valuable Participant (Moderator)

                                          poslfit wrote:

                                           

                                          The crash log notwithstanding, when I look at About InDesign... it tells me it's 6.0.6, which I think was the last version. Thank you for the frankness regarding Adobe's lack of interest in fixing its bugs.

                                          If the crash log and the version information don't agree, I'd say something is seriously damaged in the installation. If it were mine, I'd reinstall.

                                           

                                          As far as not being interested in fixing bugs, that's not what I said. I said that it wouldn't be fixed in CS4. If the bug still exists, there's a areally good chance it will be fixed in the next version, but there are some criteria for how priorities are assigned, like how many users does it affect and are there any reasonable workarounds. I would guess that this particualr problem does not affect thousands of users, but having two of you here means it's not entirely rare. Only the most severe of bugs have their fixes ported backwards to a previous version. Reasons for this include development on the previous versions has simply stopped, and the danger that applying a patch to a previous version without extensive (and very expensive, in terms of engineering time) testing will break something else that currently works the way it should. I've never seen a bug fixr get ported back beyond the immediately prior release, which means at best it would be CS5.5, and maybe CS5 at this time.

                                          1 person found this helpful
                                          • 18. Re: INDD 6.0.6 aborts when I try to delete index cross-reference
                                            John Hawkinson Level 5

                                            poslfit: I hope my brand of harsh realism did not offend.

                                            I don't personally spend much time in indexing, I'd encourage you to install the CS5.5 trial though.

                                             

                                            Peter writes:

                                            As far as not being interested in fixing bugs, that's not what I said. I said that it wouldn't be fixed in CS4. If the bug still exists, there's a areally good chance it will be fixed in the next version, but there are some criteria for how priorities are assigned, like how many users does it affect and are there any reasonable workarounds. I would guess that this particualr problem does not affect thousands of users, but having two of you here means it's not entirely rare

                                            I would point out that given the reality of software engineering release schedules and testing cycles, based on Adobe's public statements about annual release dates and the April release of CS5.5, we can expect CS6 to debut in April/May of this year. And if that's the case, it's got to be pretty-well locked down by now, such that it is not too likely that a bug reported now in CS5.5 would be fixed in time for CS6.

                                             

                                            So then the question becomes whether it gets fixed for CS6.5 and CS7 (almost certainly it would be, unless it is really hard to track down), and then whether that fix gets backported to CS6.

                                             

                                            So it goes...the sooner you can get a bug report in the better.

                                            1 person found this helpful
                                            • 19. Re: INDD 6.0.6 aborts when I try to delete index cross-reference
                                              poslfit Level 1

                                              No offence taken: realism, harsh or otherwise, is always preferable when looking for factual answers online.

                                               

                                              This document with the bad index cross-reference will be around for years to come (it's the official tournament rules for a popular board game whose identity could easily be guessed by Googling my username), so the next time we can budget for upgrading our Adobe software, I'll check to see if the bug is still there, and report it right away while my installation is fresh.

                                              • 20. Re: INDD 6.0.6 aborts when I try to delete index cross-reference
                                                John Hawkinson Level 5

                                                the next time we can budget for upgrading our Adobe software, I'll check to see if the bug is still there, and report it right away while my installation is fresh.

                                                This doesn't sound like an effective strategy.

                                                Assume it'll take two years from the time you report a bug to the time you see a fix.

                                                Download a cs5.5 trial now and see, and file your bug. Then it'll be fixed for CS7 and you'll be happy when you upgrade to that.

                                                Start the two-year clock now, not later.

                                                • 21. Re: INDD 6.0.6 aborts when I try to delete index cross-reference
                                                  dalstondavid Level 1

                                                  Hi, I know this was a while ago but just out of interest, did you ever get to the bottom of this? I have exactly the same problem, with an orphaned cross-reference in an index entry. In fact I have several of them, and whenever a new one appears I rename it zzzzz so it disappears off the end of the index pages. But there are two that I can't even rename. It's very irksome. Any ideas?

                                                   

                                                  Thanks

                                                  David