13 Replies Latest reply on Mar 20, 2012 12:40 PM by nealeh

    Obiter dicta -- inscrutable PE 8.0 issues

    prman13

      1. I, too, have Adobe PE 8.0 and downloaded as many files as seem to be relevant to updating to 8.0.1.  I followed all the instructions that I read here at the forum and other places, yet I think the program is still in 8.0 mode, and the dlls are mostly dated 2009.

       

      Here are the files that I have:

       

      Capture.JPG

       

      Yet, when I run Premiere Elements 801.exe, it simply returns a message that says, "The product is up to date."  A bald-faced lie.

       

      Either these files above have to be in specific directories, or they don't know how to access the current PR folder, or something.  I don't know the difference among these files, except that some of them are executable zip files.  What directory should they be extracted to? 

       

      I need exact instructions on how to use these files, because the PE 801.exe just isn't cutting it.  The updater in the PE 8.0 program doesn't work, either.

       

      2. Other than that, the damn program crashes all the time, telling me it's low on system resources, blah, blah, blah.  I run it with no other programs open except MS Outlook, and some necessary, slimmed-down TSRs in the background.  I have 4 GB onboard memory, and the Task Manager tells me that the computer is using only about 2.6 gigs when PE is running.  I ordered   4 GB more in Kingston memory cards, so I will have 8 GB total.  Is that enough to run this blasted program without crashing all the time?

       

      3. What is the correct and proper way to delete PE projects, and all their corollary files, once you have successfully burned a DVD, and the creation files are no longer needed or wanted as archives?  I need the hard disk space, and once the DVD is burned, I can simply copy that for archival purpose.  In most cases, the working project files will need to be deleted, but the manual does not discuss how to do this.  Any suggestions?

       

      BK

        • 1. Re: Obiter dicta -- inscrutable PE 8.0 issues
          nealeh Level 5

          If I recall correctly the PRE8 update didn't update the 'About' screen. You could however check it installed by looking at the dates on certain dll files. If you search the discussions you should be able to find the list of dlls to check (or look inside the updater with something like 7-Zip to find the dates).

           

          Cheers,

          --

          Neale

          Insanity is hereditary, you get it from your children

          • 2. Re: Obiter dicta -- inscrutable PE 8.0 issues
            the_wine_snob Level 9

            Neale,

             

            That is how I remember updating PrE 8.0 - the About Screen never changed, and Steve, you, or maybe Robert Johnson published the exact dates of some files, to check whether PrE 8.0 HAD been updated. However, that was a couple of years ago, and my memory is no longer the best.

             

            To the OP, good luck, and a Search of this forum should get you the list of files, with their dates, to verify that PrE 8.0 was updated.

             

            Good luck,

             

            Hunt

            • 3. Re: Obiter dicta -- inscrutable PE 8.0 issues
              prman13 Level 1

              No one really answered my questions here:

               

              1. My post assumed that PE 8 was NOT updated, because the bulk of the dll files are dated 2009, instead of the watershed 2010 date.  Therefore, I need to know the exact folder to which  these zip files should be extracted.  And what do each of these files do?  What is the difference between the ZIP file and the 7-ZIP files?  And the differences among the three different application files?  Do they all need to be run?  Most programs that update application software simply need a single setup file to be run.  This Adobe setup procedure is very confusing, is not accountable after the thing has been run, and leaves the customer in the dark as to whether the damn thing worked or not.  Customers shouldn't have to be searching dates on dll files to determine if the program has been updated. Very poor, Adobe, and unacceptable.
              2. No one addressed the constant crash issue at all.  My computer specs exceed the minimum requirements that Adobe lists for the PE 8 program.  My guess is that it is a memory issue.  I am trying to edit a 2-hour movie.  All I am asking is, is 4 GB enough RAM, or is 8 GB a more reasonable number?
              3. No one addressed the issue of how to delete projects and there associated files completely from the program's various directories, including backup files, etc.  All these files gobble up a lot of hard disk space, and I want to remove all of them after the desired DVD has been burned.  The manual does not discuss this matter.  Does anyone have the right answer here?

               

              Thanks in advance.

              • 4. Re: Obiter dicta -- inscrutable PE 8.0 issues
                nealeh Level 5

                Kalellis wrote:

                 

                This Adobe setup procedure is very confusing,

                 

                Did you read the installation instructions at http://www.adobe.com/support/downloads/detail.jsp?ftpID=4653? They tell you exactly what to do. They even tell you that it does not update the version number.

                Kalellis wrote:

                 

                Customers shouldn't have to be searching dates on dll files to determine if the program has been updated. Very poor, Adobe, and unacceptable.

                 

                Adobe won't hear you here, we are just users trying to help each other out. Click 'Contact Adobe' at the bottom of this page if you want to communicate with them.

                Kalellis wrote:

                 

                No one addressed the constant crash issue at all.  My computer specs exceed the minimum requirements that Adobe lists for the PE 8 program.  My guess is that it is a memory issue.  I am trying to edit a 2-hour movie.  All I am asking is, is 4 GB enough RAM, or is 8 GB a more reasonable number?

                 

                PRE8 is a 32-bit program so 4GB is the maximum that is of any use. If you have a 64-bit system and upgraded to PRE10 then as much memory as you can afford will make things better.

                 

                Kalellis wrote:

                 

                No one addressed the issue of how to delete projects and there associated files completely from the program's various directories, including backup files, etc.  All these files gobble up a lot of hard disk space, and I want to remove all of them after the desired DVD has been burned.  The manual does not discuss this matter.  Does anyone have the right answer here?

                 

                If you create a separate folder structure for each project then deleting is as simple as removing that folder.

                 

                You will find the following articles helpful for trouble-shooting and for the information needed to help diagnose your issues. You haven't told us whether you are on Mac or PC, what operating system you are using, what disk drives you have and how much free defragmented space is on each, where your video clips come from, how you got them onto your computer, what project setting you used when you created your project, or how the clips got into PRE and much more.

                 

                Got a Problem? How to Get Started

                PrE Hanging, or Crashing - Some Tips

                 

                 

                Cheers,

                --

                Neale

                Insanity is hereditary, you get it from your children

                • 5. Re: Obiter dicta -- inscrutable PE 8.0 issues
                  prman13 Level 1

                  Neale,

                   

                  Thank you for your reply.  For the record, I have a PC running Windows 7 Business.  Here are the system specs, including hard drives.

                   

                  Capture.JPG

                  PE 8 runs from C:\Program Files, but the project files are stored on the H drive, which is the largest -- 1 TB.

                   

                  Clips in this project are converted from YouTube flv files converted by Foxreal Video Converter.  Other clips, e.g., VHS tapes imported into the program, are digitized by a Canopus ADVC-300 Advanced Digital Video Converter hardware.

                   

                  This current project, which is giving me all the trouble, contains 26 individual MP4 video clips, ranging from 50 MB to 135 MB in size. When this project is running, I get system resources warnings.

                   

                  Could it be that the graphics card is the weak sister?  It only comes with 512 MB on board.  Would a larger memory video card assist PR 8?

                   

                  Your suggestion to create a separate folder for each video project makes sense.  I will do this in the future.

                   

                  I have already seen, and followed, your link to the update installation procedures.  I followed this exactly, and when I ran the exe file, it simply returned the message, "The product is up to date."  But the dlls in the directory are mostly dated 2009, not 2010, so I have little confidence that the program that is actually running is the 8.0.1. updated one.  And if I am to run only the one file -- PremiereElements801.exe -- what are these other files, like the 7-ZIP Archive thingie, and the PremiereElements_8_Content_LS8?  Is there some other way to check to see if the version I am running is actually the updated one?

                   

                  Thanks again for your help.

                   

                  BK

                  • 6. Re: Obiter dicta -- inscrutable PE 8.0 issues
                    prman13 Level 1

                    Bill,

                     

                    I have been reading your crash tips from your February 2011 posting that Neale forwarded to me.  At the bottom, you have this footnote:

                     

                    * PrE, like most NLE (Non Linear Editing) programs, creates very large working files. These are necessary for it to do the work. Having 30 - 40 GB of defragmented, free space is necessary for the program to work properly. Note: with HDD's, once one gets to about 70% of capacity, the performance will go down. The closer to 100% capacity one gets, the lower the performance. Also, as 70+ % is reached, the mechanical wear on the HDD will increase. As one approaches 100% capacity, the likelihood of catastrophic failure of the HDD will increase greatly, as performance declines. Keeping the use of a HDD below about 70% is important for performance and for the health of the HDD.

                     

                    Are you saying that the PrE operating program as stored in the C:\Program Files\Adobe subdirectory needs the additional disk space, or (in my case) the 1 TB H Drive, where I have all the project files stored?

                     

                    If the crash problems that I have been having are due to the operating program running from a cramped C Drive, then I will reinstall the thing on the large H drive instead,  What do you think?

                     

                    Thanks,

                     

                    BK

                    • 7. Re: Obiter dicta -- inscrutable PE 8.0 issues
                      the_wine_snob Level 9

                      There are several levels of "working files," created with a Project, and some will go to the C:\, but the largest files, and also the largest group of files, will be located where you have set your Scratch Disks. Then, when you go to Export/Share, or author a DVD, even more, large files will be created, in those processes. For instance, if one is Exporting/Sharing to a muxed AV file (both the Audio Stream and the Video Stream contained in one file), one file for each Stream will be created, along with some small "handler" files. Then, those two files (one for each Stream), will be combined into one file. While this is being done, there will be three large files created, but two of those (the individual Streams), and the handerler files, will be Deleted, as soon as the muxed AV file has been created. Still, some fairly serious HDD real estate will be required in the process.

                       

                      Another aspect of HDD real estate, and not directly related to PrE, will be the Page File, that Windows generates and uses for operations that cannot fit into RAM. If one has left that at the default to be dynamically managed, then behind the scenes, when one launches PrE, Windows will decide "oh, I need to expand the Page File to get ready for this program," and will do just that, requiring some HDD real estate, and most likely on the C:\ (the default).

                       

                      Those are why I strongly suggest so much defragmented free-space, when doing video-editing. Also, as an HDD reaches about 70% of capacity, its performance declines, and exponentially as one gets closer and closer to capacity. Also, hitting capacity can cause catastrophic HDD failure, with little hope of doing a recovery, this side of a professional data recovery service, which will be expensive.

                       

                      Good luck, and hope that helps,

                       

                      Hunt

                      1 person found this helpful
                      • 8. Re: Obiter dicta -- inscrutable PE 8.0 issues
                        nealeh Level 5

                        Kalellis wrote:

                         

                        PE 8 runs from C:\Program Files, but the project files are stored on the H drive, which is the largest -- 1 TB.

                         

                        That should be fine if the disk is an internal drive. If it's USB2 it may be too slow for working with PRE. Also some have found using disk partitioning a problem with PRE (I haven't found it to be a problem - but my data disk is not partitioned, only my multi-boot windows disk).

                         

                        Do you have a compelling reason to run 32-bit Windows 7 on a 64-bit capable system? You asked about buying more memory but I'd suggest upgrading to W7-64 from your Windows Installation DVDs (they contain both versions) and spending the money on PRE10 (which is 64-bit). PRE8 was a troublesome version that I'm sure Adobe wish to forget! Download the Trial version first and see if you find it easier to work with.

                        Kalellis wrote:

                         

                        Clips in this project are converted from YouTube flv files converted by Foxreal Video Converter.  Other clips, e.g., VHS tapes imported into the program, are digitized by a Canopus ADVC-300 Advanced Digital Video Converter hardware.

                         

                        This current project, which is giving me all the trouble, contains 26 individual MP4 video clips, ranging from 50 MB to 135 MB in size. When this project is running, I get system resources warnings.

                         

                         

                        The Canopus is a fine unit - it's what I have and it produces excellent DV-AVIs - you are importing directly to PRE via FireWire?

                         

                        What format did you convert the FLV files to?

                         

                        Can you post some screenshots from GSpot (link is in the getting started article) showing the formats of some of those MP4's and the converted FLVs.

                         

                        Also you haven't listed what project settings you are using for each of your projects. I'm assuming projects plural but if you are mixing different video formats in a single project then that could well be a contributing factor to your problems.

                         

                        Kalellis wrote:


                        Could it be that the graphics card is the weak sister?  It only comes with 512 MB on board.  Would a larger memory video card assist PR 8?


                        No. Your card is fine for PRE. I have an earlier model 8800GT and it gives no problems with PRE7, PRE9, or PRE10.

                         

                        I never had PRE8 but I think you can take it that if the updater says it's already updated, then it is. Otherwise you should search the forums for PRE8 update and see if you can find the posts.

                         

                        Cheers,

                        --

                        Neale

                        Insanity is hereditary, you get it from your children

                        1 person found this helpful
                        • 9. Re: Obiter dicta -- inscrutable PE 8.0 issues
                          nealeh Level 5

                          Actually if you check my post here All the links for PRE 9, 8 and 7 there is a link to 'Did the patch install successfully?' in the PRE8 section.

                           

                          Cheers,

                          --

                          Neale

                          Insanity is hereditary, you get it from your children

                          1 person found this helpful
                          • 10. Re: Obiter dicta -- inscrutable PE 8.0 issues
                            prman13 Level 1

                            Dear Neale,

                             

                            Again, thanks for taking the time to reply to my stupid questions.  Actually, I wouldn't be averse to reinstalling Windows 7 at the 64-bit level, but it's not clear to me that all the software programs that I have that are designed for a 32-bit system would run with no problems.  I have no experience with the 64-bit system, and I have a lot of $ invested in the software, so I don't want to throw all that out the window.  Will these programs all run on a 64-bit based system, although at the 32-bit level?  If you can confirm that they will run, then I probably will make the switchover, although that will be a big pain, since I will have to reinstall everything, no?  Plus, I have six drives.  This is a lot of files to manuver.  Do the disks have to be reformatted?  Maybe a trial subscription to one of those cloud places like Carbonite, where I could upload everything, then backfill all the disks?  What would you recommend?

                             

                            I did download the trial version of PrE 10, but it did not have the disk menu template that I  selected for my current project, so I removed it from the system.  I am committed to finishing this project with PrE 8, but taking Bill Hunt's advice, I am reinstalling the operating program on the large 1 TB drive, that is barely used, and I will make the scratch disk and associated cache files on another drive.  This might prevent the thing from crashing all the time.  I can always upgrade to PrE 10 down the road.

                             

                            As I mentioned, I have collected a number of flv files (at 480 resolution) from YouTube, and have converted them all to mp4 video files.  These I have simply imported into PrE 8.  They were converted via software from Foxreal, the company that bought out Moyea.  After converting flv files to a variety of different formats -- avi, vob, lossless DV, etc. -- my judgment was that the mp4s looked the best, although they are very large.

                             

                            The reason I mention the graphics card is that I always get the monitor message that says, "Display performance will be poor due to incorrectly operating graphics card or driver."  This, even though I have installed the latest NVIDIA drivers for my card.  On the Windows 7 system performance test, the video card rates the lowest -- a 4.9 -- compared to the other hardware on the computer.  I don't know if this is because of the small onboard memory, or what.

                             

                            Thanks, too, for the informational links.  I am looking at every one of them.

                             

                            Barrett Kalellis

                            • 11. Re: Obiter dicta -- inscrutable PE 8.0 issues
                              nealeh Level 5

                              I'm pretty certain that the 64-bit upgrade is an 'in-place' installation. No reformatting required, nothing needing to be done to your disks. After the upgrade applications should run as normal PROVIDING that they can run under a 64-bit system. I clearly cannot answer for your software, but if you go to Microsoft's web site there is a whole section where you can enter your software title and it comes back telling you if it will run under W7-64.

                               

                              Carbonite is very good, I use it and consider it money well spent, even though I have only ever had to recover a few files. Note though that by default it only backs up files of a certain size. You can easily change that default, or even just choose specific files files to back up.

                               

                              There is no such thing as a 'standard' AVI or 'standard' MP4 - they are containers and the media in them could be encoded by anyone of dozens, if not hundreds, of alternate codecs. Without the detail I can't really offer any further help so please take and post those GSpot screenshots and details of your project setting. Also post a screenshot of your project timeline - use the backslash key [\] to expand/shrink the whole timeline to fit the screen and increase the timeline height so as to see as many tracks as possible.

                               

                              Re the PRE10 trial there are separate downloads for the templates, although it is true that there are less than in previous versions of PRE.

                               

                              Cheers,

                              --

                              Neale

                              Insanity is hereditary, you get it from your children

                              1 person found this helpful
                              • 12. Re: Obiter dicta -- inscrutable PE 8.0 issues
                                prman13 Level 1

                                Neale,

                                 

                                In checking the Microsoft website, I find this notice:

                                 

                                 

                                If you want to move from a 32-bit version of Windows to a 64-bit version of Windows 7 or vice versa, you'll need to back up your files and choose the Custom option during Windows 7 installation. Then, you'll need to restore your files and reinstall your programs. For more information about performing a custom installation, see Installing and reinstalling Windows 7.

                                 

                                This looks like a big pain in the ***, since backing up all the files and programs that are currently installed would necessitate moving them to a different machine or external server.  It looks like the Carbonite option is the only way to do this.

                                • 13. Re: Obiter dicta -- inscrutable PE 8.0 issues
                                  nealeh Level 5

                                  Thanks for that - I couldn't have been more wrong!

                                   

                                  Cheers,

                                  --

                                  Neale

                                  Insanity is hereditary, you get it from your children