21 Replies Latest reply on Apr 25, 2008 9:33 AM by Necromanthus

    3d in flash

    tyree_2 Level 2
      people have been trying to do 3d in flash for years but this group actually has it


      http://www.freespin3d.com/freespin3d/www/default.aspx
        • 1. Re: 3d in flash
          Level 7
          I dont' think we need to worry, it's just barely like a crippled software
          render mode. It's not like Flash is using the 3D hardware or anything, but
          it is clever. Certainly good for spinning product demos.

          Cheers

          Richard Smith
          www.funpods.com


          "tyree_2" <webforumsuser@macromedia.com> wrote in message
          news:ftrhfh$2jj$1@forums.macromedia.com...
          > people have been trying to do 3d in flash for years but this group
          > acutally has it
          >
          >
          > http://www.freespin3d.com/freespin3d/www/default.aspx


          • 2. 3d in flash
            tyree_2 Level 2
            its still in its infancy, by no means a strong engine compared to any of the other web 3d engines. but it is the real thing. seems to be taking advantage of flash video/swf, as for as using them as animated textures. the shockwave player has recieved a lot of updates lately. but this was always a problem, the engine wasnt able to do both play an animated model and texture simultaneously. maybe its changed with recent updates
            • 3. Re: 3d in flash
              Martin Schaefer Level 1
              quote:

              ... but it is the real thing.


              The "real thing" is about 8 years old and is called Director & Imaging Lingo. Flash tries to achieve, what Director and its then innovative and creative users could do in 2000. So no need to call this Flash 3D fuss the "real thing". ;)

              Cheers,
              Martin
              • 4. Re: 3d in flash
                Martin Schaefer Level 1
                quote:

                the (shockwave) engine wasnt able to do both play an animated model and texture simultaneously.


                The engine was well capable of doing this, many years before Flash could.
                At best, the CPUs weren't as fast as today.
                Please don't spread such untruth, if you don't know the facts. Thanks.

                Cheers,
                Martin
                • 5. Re: 3d in flash
                  AlinaX Level 1
                  quote:

                  Originally posted by: tyree_2
                  people have been trying to do 3d in flash for years but this group actually has it



                  They didn't do anything new there.
                  Besides, 3d in flash sucks (poor image quality & performances).
                  • 6. Re: 3d in flash
                    tyree_2 Level 2
                    its the real thing as for as 3d in flash goes there is much more to it than that.
                    • 7. Re: 3d in flash
                      multiduck Level 1
                      quote:

                      Originally posted by: tyree_2
                      its the real thing as for as 3d in flash goes there is much more to it than that.


                      I highly doubt any current flash 3d will be able to play any of your animations at anywhere reasonable fps (if they even support animation, let alone bones driven animation).

                      That said as long as Unity is mac only it wouldn't be all bad with hardware supported flash 3d, although I'd prefer a updated director 3d engine on par with Unity, hint, hint. :)
                      • 8. 3d in flash
                        tyree_2 Level 2
                        I had no intention of using it, its not strong enough for me to use it right now, but I like what theyre doing. there are other web 3d programs Id use instead. this is an alright program but the way web3d is uploaded needs to be changed http://www.awingsoft.com/
                        • 9. 3d in flash
                          StratoBlaze

                          "people have been trying to do 3d in flash for years but this group actually has it"

                          http://www.freespin3d.com/freespin3d/www/default.aspx


                          Hey tyree_2,

                          Thanks alot for sharing. This lot do realy have it.

                          Multiduck - Casual gaming and, 3D casual gaming isn't about bone driven anim or real life simulation etc.. Its all about the gameplay, gameplay, gameplay.
                          Text
                          • 10. Re: 3d in flash
                            Nanomedia Level 1
                            quote:

                            Originally posted by: StratoBlaze
                            3D casual gaming isn't about bone driven anim or real life simulation etc.. Its all about the gameplay, gameplay, gameplay.


                            There is no gameplay at 3 frames per second.
                            • 11. 3d in flash
                              multiduck Level 1
                              quote:

                              Originally posted by: StratoBlaze
                              Multiduck - Casual gaming and, 3D casual gaming isn't about bone driven anim or real life simulation etc.. Its all about the gameplay, gameplay, gameplay.
                              Text


                              And where was I mentioning gaming? I must have missed the essay I posted on that. And as Nanomedia writes you can't create games (any type of games) at those extremely low fps, I have seen people say they need dual core to get 20 fps from simple aplications, now I ask you how large a percentage of you target audience have you dropped by going software 3d?

                              To have gameplay you need to be able to play the game.

                              Edit: If someone still wants 3d in flash I'd recommend using Papervission3d, as they have contacts within Adobe so the long term viability is reasonably good.
                              • 12. 3d in flash
                                StratoBlaze Level 1
                                We too were excited when we first heard about Papervision, but after a while we cooled down and realised that it is a nice academic exercise in 3D graphics - we struggled with it and gave up.
                                It grinded the CPU on simple " spinning product demos", and it took us seven models until we could rotate an object without that major sorting problem.

                                All I'm saying is that you can actually develop 3D casual games with these FreeSpin3D guys - ignore their marketing BS.
                                Casual, like in Pogo, newgrounds, Club Peguin.


                                • 13. Re: 3d in flash
                                  AlinaX Level 1
                                  quote:

                                  Originally posted by: StratoBlaze
                                  We too were excited when we first heard about Papervision, but after a while we cooled down and realised that it is a nice academic exercise in 3D graphics - we struggled with it and gave up.
                                  It grinded the CPU on simple " spinning product demos", and it took us seven models until we could rotate an object without that major sorting problem.


                                  As I said before, 3D in flash sucks!
                                  3D in flash is available for years. (including XML based 3D models importers).
                                  PaperVision is nothing more than a collection of AS2-AS3 routines able to emulate a 3D engine in flash.
                                  The guys from FreeSpin3D (I bet you're one of them) did not come with anything new.
                                  In fact their 3D emulation is worst (awful framerate) than PaperVision.

                                  You should stop promoting all these things in a Director Shockwave ( real 3D) forum.
                                  • 14. Re: 3d in flash
                                    Romeo.Marian Level 1
                                    I agree with AlinaX.
                                    But for those interested in 3D in flash, here is something much better than Papervision3D or Sandy3D:
                                    http://blog.alternativaplatform.com/en/
                                    Check out those 3 demos.
                                    • 15. Re: 3d in flash
                                      Level 7
                                      OMG! Wow, is it already built into the flash player? How come I could view
                                      the 3D demos without extra downloads? Did they sneak it in a hidden release
                                      like FlashCommServer?

                                      It was jerky frame rate at times (the bunker demo), but I think that's
                                      because it was streaming content as I was playing it. When it stopped
                                      streaming the frame rate seemed really fast (not as good as Unity3D though).

                                      Has Director/ shockwave3D finally lost it's point?

                                      Thanks for posting.

                                      Richard
                                      www.funpods.com


                                      "Romeo.Marian" <webforumsuser@macromedia.com> wrote in message
                                      news:fupv7e$4ld$1@forums.macromedia.com...
                                      >I agree with AlinaX.
                                      > But for those interested in 3D in flash, here is something much better
                                      > than Papervision3D or Sandy3D:
                                      > http://blog.alternativaplatform.com/en/
                                      > Check out those 3 demos.


                                      • 16. Re: 3d in flash
                                        Level 7
                                        Is it still a clever 3D emulation using flash surfaces? Or does it use 3D
                                        hardware acceleration? I'm still a bit confused :)

                                        Richard

                                        "Romeo.Marian" <webforumsuser@macromedia.com> wrote in message
                                        news:fupv7e$4ld$1@forums.macromedia.com...
                                        >I agree with AlinaX.
                                        > But for those interested in 3D in flash, here is something much better
                                        > than Papervision3D or Sandy3D:
                                        > http://blog.alternativaplatform.com/en/
                                        > Check out those 3 demos.


                                        • 17. Re: 3d in flash
                                          Romeo.Marian Level 1
                                          quote:

                                          Originally posted by: Richard
                                          Is it still a clever 3D emulation using flash surfaces? Or does it use 3D
                                          hardware acceleration? I'm still a bit confused :)


                                          Flash means DirectDraw (not Direct3D), so no 3D hardware acceleration at all.
                                          Those guys made the best 3D engine in a flash environment.
                                          But as you can see, flash 3D is still limited to few hundreds polygons per scene.
                                          If you want more, you need a Core 2 Quad!
                                          ;)



                                          • 18. Re: 3d in flash
                                            Necromanthus Level 2
                                            > Is it still a clever 3D emulation using flash surfaces?
                                            >
                                            > Richard

                                            Anton Volkov is a very clever guy Richard.
                                            But as I said 4 years ago ( http://necromanthus.com/KoolMoves/3DRender.html ), 3D in flash has no future.
                                            33 polygons or 330 polygons (with or without detailed textures) is almost the same thing.

                                            Now the main question: "is the D12 the answer to the Web 3D demands?"

                                            cheers
                                            • 19. Re: 3d in flash
                                              Level 7
                                              Aah, I'm glad it's not hardware accelerated. They've done an amazing job
                                              though! (that face demo looks superb)

                                              Hopefully I can carry on using Director for a while longer. The amount of
                                              version 11 plugin / installation problems people are having is scaring me at
                                              the moment though see (macromedia.players.shockwave). My latest game
                                              launches on shockwave.com on Tuesday.

                                              Thanks for the info.

                                              Richard


                                              "Romeo.Marian" <webforumsuser@macromedia.com> wrote in message
                                              news:fusf82$r38$1@forums.macromedia.com...
                                              >
                                              quote:

                                              Originally posted by: Richard
                                              > Is it still a clever 3D emulation using flash surfaces? Or does it use 3D
                                              > hardware acceleration? I'm still a bit confused :)

                                              >
                                              > Flash means DirectDraw (not Direct3D), so no 3D hardware acceleration at
                                              > all.
                                              > Those guys made the best 3D engine in a flash environment.
                                              > But as you can see, flash 3D is still limited to few hundreds polygons per
                                              > scene.
                                              > If you want more, you need a Core 2 Quad!
                                              > ;)
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >


                                              • 20. Re: 3d in flash
                                                Level 7
                                                Good to hear from you. Thanks for the info :)

                                                I need not be so worried about retraining just yet.

                                                I hope Adobe don't kill the plugin off before we get to D12 with the amount
                                                of broken content I'm hearing about!

                                                Cheers!

                                                Richard

                                                "necromanthus" <webforumsuser@macromedia.com> wrote in message
                                                news:fusgfj$sa2$1@forums.macromedia.com...
                                                >> Is it still a clever 3D emulation using flash surfaces?
                                                > >
                                                > > Richard
                                                >
                                                > Anton Volkov is a very clever guy Richard.
                                                > But as I said 4 years ago (
                                                > http://necromanthus.com/KoolMoves/3DRender.html ),
                                                > 3D in flash has no future.
                                                > 33 polygons or 330 polygons (with or without detailed textures) is almost
                                                > the
                                                > same thing.
                                                >
                                                > Now the main question: "is the D12 the answer to the Web 3D demands?"
                                                >
                                                > cheers
                                                >


                                                • 21. Re: 3d in flash
                                                  Necromanthus Level 2
                                                  > Richard : that face demo looks superb

                                                  That's right. But it's a fake (has nothing to do with 3D).

                                                  It's based on 3 images: the main one and 2 masks.
                                                  http://necromanthus.com/Images/parallax_effect.jpg
                                                  I used a similar masking method to emulate this 3D rotation:
                                                  http://necromanthus.com/KoolMoves/Terra.html

                                                  cheers