29 Replies Latest reply: Jan 21, 2015 4:27 AM by KIPzookin RSS

    Slow/choppy playback - cache buffering issue

    Stu S Community Member

      On playback, PP6 randomly slows down and plays back choppy on visually complex shots.  It takes repeated stops and starts to clear it out.  I have troubleshot the life out of this, read every relevant thread, and tried everything imaginable to fix it.  Windows 7 pro is fully optimized.  There are no software conflicts (installed a drive with only windows and CS6)  I’ve got plenty of horsepower - 3930K in an asusp9x79pro, gtx 670 w/4mb, 32mb ram, OC to 4.5.  Eric Bowen at ADK has personally tuned the system and done a manual overclock. Memtest confirms the ram is fine. There are no hardware issues. Dropped frame indicator stays green, no dropped frames.  Switching from hardware to software mercury playback does nothing.  Rendering has no effect, nor do any playback settings. It happens with AVCHD and h.264 mp4’s as well, on short clips, not just long ones. It does not happen outside of ppro. Since I have eliminated hardware and software issues, all this leaves is Premiere.

       

      As Eric explains it, it is a cache buffering issue, related to how the nvidia card and ppro interact, and he sees it frequently enough.  I can't do his explanation justice, but he has offered to jump in and provide more detail if need be.

       

      Whatever it is, it’s ridiculous.   It is totally unacceptable to play down a sequence and have it intermittently slow down  on a system with this much power that has been properly set up by a pro.  It’s a shame, because it’s the only thing from keeping ppro/cs6 from being the best platform I’ve edited on in my 12 years as an editor.

       

      I’ve filed a bug report, but gotten no response.  If others are seeing it, and can file a bug report, maybe it will be publicly acknowledged and resolved.

       

      https://www.adobe.com/cfusion/mmform/index.cfm?name=wishform

        • 1. Re: Slow/choppy playback - cache buffering issue
          Robert Scarfe

          I get exactly the same problem. Upgraded from  Premier Pro  5.5 - which incidentally always gave very smooth playback on the same hardware,  Windows 7 Pro - on an i7 12G Ram GTX470 GFX Striped Media Drive. And  now with CS6 I get intermittent choppy playback, which looks like an occasional dropped frame, with all media types SD and HD but worst with H264 or AVCHD. I also have the dropped frames indicator staying green at all times, the same as you. As a side issue it means that I can't print any SD back to tape as the video stutters etc. It is no good in a professional enviroment with this hesitant video issue. Do you think it is a hardware or a software problem? If anybody has experienced and cured this, please let me know.

          • 2. Re: Slow/choppy playback - cache buffering issue
            Stu S Community Member

            Unless someone can point to something that I, or Eric, who is as experienced an integrator as they get, have missed, then it's a PP 6 issue.  It would be most appreciated if Todd or Kevin could jump in and either offer additional avenues to explore to fix it, or acknowlege that it is an issue that Adobe is working on.

            • 3. Re: Slow/choppy playback - cache buffering issue
              mde.tv Community Member

              Anybody find any answers? I'm having the same problem... 3930K with 64GB RAM, GeForce GTX 460... video is choppy and slow even when the preview files are rendered to an SSD. This sucks!

              • 4. Re: Slow/choppy playback - cache buffering issue
                Stu S Community Member

                It would certainly be appreciated if Adobe acknowledged the issue and said they were working on it.  In the meantime, a bug report is your only option.

                • 5. Re: Slow/choppy playback - cache buffering issue
                  Milo Maya

                  Hi,

                  I  think I have similair problem. First of all my current specs is:

                  Asus Sabertooth z77 mainboard with intel i7 2700K processor

                  32 gb (8*4) ram

                  120 gb ssd sata3 drive for OS and CS6

                  500 gb sata3 7200rpm hd for cache files

                  1 tb sata3 7200rpm hd for source video and audio

                  and finally Nvidia GeForce GTX 660 Ti with 2gb of memory

                  Blackmagic shuttle io card etc

                   

                  This system were combined specially for my endless highend compositing needs and it works like a charm with all applications other than Premiere Pro.

                  Yesterday I barley finished editing a short (approx 2 minutes) 1080p project that shot with Canon 5D MKII. Without using mercury playback engine application

                  works fine but once I activate it all playback became really slow and laggy and sometime it freeze if I move playhead quickly.

                  I only use one video and one audio track in timeline so we can say this editing scenario is a fundamental for production grade NLE application.

                  My graphic processor has a lot of cuda power but Adobe doesn't support it natively so I have to edit  the famous text file.

                  On CS5 and CS5.5 I done lots of 1080p project with my old gtx 480 card and I never encountered any similair problem.

                  I hope my favorite and trusted software company Adobe will find the problem and will fix it soon...

                   

                  Thanks

                  M.Maya

                  • 6. Re: Slow/choppy playback - cache buffering issue
                    napynap

                    Milo Maya, the problem you describe seems to be very similar to an issue I recently encountered. Although we have different graphics cards, the cause could be the driver...  http://forums.adobe.com/thread/1202944

                    • 7. Re: Slow/choppy playback - cache buffering issue
                      jamesp2 Community Member

                      Just to keep this matter current and in view, I'll also note laggy performance and slow time-line responsiveness with both AVC-intra and AVCHD footage, even with [only] one track of video. 

                       

                      This occurs when jumping from one cut to another, particularly in areas of the t-l where there has not been recent playback.  Takes several seconds to display the correct frame, and play.

                       

                      Many times, there are also often dropped frames on the first attempt to play a clip (at "full").

                       

                      This is with the latest nvidia driver (for the 660ti).

                      • 8. Re: Slow/choppy playback - cache buffering issue
                        Milo Maya Community Member

                        Nope, I always update my drivers periodically...

                        • 9. Re: Slow/choppy playback - cache buffering issue
                          Stu S Community Member

                          Kevin Monihan was not even aware of it, and did not know if this bug was being worked on, though Harm confirmed that it has been reported to Adobe's engineers.  Please see posts 657 - 667 on this thread:

                           

                          http://forums.adobe.com/message/5334463#5334463

                           

                          He has promised to look into it, but if we do not keep pressing for a response, we will not get one, so please continue to post, follow up with Kevin, and file bug reports (though these have proved useless so far).

                           

                          It's very upsetting, as this is a core function of the program that is broken, and although Adobe has had many months to fix it, they have not even publicly acknowledged it.  Very disappointing.

                          • 10. Re: Slow/choppy playback - cache buffering issue
                            SteveHoeg Adobe Employee

                            Hey Stu - This is not an issue the Premiere Pro team is familliar with, and does not sound similar to any we have worked with Harm on. Can you provide any guidance to help us reproduce on our side?

                            • 11. Re: Slow/choppy playback - cache buffering issue
                              Stu S Community Member

                              Hi Steve,

                               

                              Thanks for jumping in.  In addition to the info in my first post, I'm not sure what other info to provide.  I'm going to ask Eric Bowen to jump in, he's far more capable than me at articulating the problem.  Later tonight, I'll also try to post a video sample.

                              • 12. Re: Slow/choppy playback - cache buffering issue
                                ECBowen MVP

                                The issue is the frame buffering of expected frames with AVC. Should you take the transport and move to a new location, the program out takes  1 to 3 seconds to update to the new media location. If you shuttle through the timeline forward or backward, the preview stops after so many frames and will not update until you stop the transport a wait a few seconds. The Jog and Shuttle performance issue was reported with CS5.5 and was never resolved. However with CS6, the Program monitor taking seconds to rebuffer the current frames is causing major issues with editors who are use to jumping through media quick making cuts and such. Any AVC media that I have seen shows this issue especially AVCHD. H264 also will show it. Cineform media seems to not show the issue at all. That is why this really looks to be a buffer caching issue with specific codecs. Changing Video drivers will shorten or lengthen wait time on caching the current frame some but not much. This has been reported before in the forums. I am surprised that this has never gone to the Premiere Pro team since I know bug reports were submitted then.

                                 

                                Eric

                                ADK

                                • 13. Re: Slow/choppy playback - cache buffering issue
                                  J. Simon Community Member

                                  I'm no software engineer (any more), but I'm curious what makes you think it's a bug and not just unrealistic expectations of editors wanting DV performance out of the very difficult to edit AVCHD media?  I mean, is there something going on at the software or driver level that you're been able to test?

                                   

                                  I ask because I see similar lags when I work with 12 GOP patches on my GH2, but with I-frame patches the performance is significantly better, almost DV-like.  Same codec, different encoding scheme, so I just attributed the performance lag to the nature of the media.  I'd be interested to know if you're seeing things 'under the hood' (as it were) that lead you to a different conclusion.

                                  • 14. Re: Slow/choppy playback - cache buffering issue
                                    jamesp2 Community Member

                                    To confirm Eric's observation that this time-line display lag is unique to AVC and AVCHD footage, I exported a number of AVC-Intra clips to Avid DNxHD, using  a data rate commensurate with the original.

                                     

                                    Unlike the AVC-intra clips, the Avid clips update instantly on the time-line, no matter how fast you move.  It's a night and day difference!

                                     

                                    It's astonishing that this matter hasn't been addressed with a fix, as editing AVC material can be real drudgery, given this poor responsiveness. 

                                     

                                    I'd also add that in my experience AVC I-frame footage isn't noticeably better than long GOP stuff.  It's all slow.

                                     

                                    Am I right in assuming that as Adobe is apparently unaware of this problem, PPRo CC will offer no fix????

                                    • 15. Re: Slow/choppy playback - cache buffering issue
                                      J. Simon Community Member

                                      I'd also add that in my experience AVC I-frame footage isn't noticeably better than long GOP stuff.  It's all slow.

                                       

                                      Hmm.  I'm seeing the opposite.

                                       

                                      I just shot some AVC-I today on a freelance gig.  I'll have to see if I can get my hands on some of that.

                                      • 16. Re: Slow/choppy playback - cache buffering issue
                                        Stu S Community Member

                                        SteveHoeg wrote:

                                         

                                        Hey Stu - This is not an issue the Premiere Pro team is familliar with, and does not sound similar to any we have worked with Harm on. Can you provide any guidance to help us reproduce on our side?

                                        Hi Steve,

                                         

                                        Below is a link to a down & dirty shot of my screen that illustrates a clear example of this.  Watch the video play down and you'll see the choppiness kick in at about 4 seconds.  Then, I stop the timeline, and replay the same shot, at 19 seconds in, and it plays down perfectly.  This happens all the time, on all sorts of shots - they internmittently downshift into slo mo, then shift back to normal with a stop and start.  It's impossible to work this way.

                                         

                                        https://vimeo.com/66611187

                                         

                                        Here's a clean export, in which the grass moves properly, for reference.

                                         

                                        https://vimeo.com/63214663

                                         

                                        Thoughts?

                                        • 17. Re: Slow/choppy playback - cache buffering issue
                                          ECBowen MVP

                                          What Camera are you using Jim?

                                           

                                          Eric

                                          ADK

                                          • 18. Re: Slow/choppy playback - cache buffering issue
                                            J. Simon Community Member

                                            Panasonic GH2.

                                            • 19. Re: Slow/choppy playback - cache buffering issue
                                              ECBowen MVP

                                              The reason I consider this a bug is because CS5 did not show any of this. CS5.5 just showed Shuttling through frames problem. CS6 is different from the other 2.

                                               

                                              Eric

                                              ADK

                                              • 20. Re: Slow/choppy playback - cache buffering issue
                                                J. Simon Community Member

                                                Ah, didn't know that.  I started with HD using CS6.  Before that it was all DV.

                                                • 21. Re: Slow/choppy playback - cache buffering issue
                                                  jamesp2 Community Member

                                                  I've edited a fair amount of hacked GH2 intra footage.

                                                   

                                                  All of it exhibits the lag behavior described above in PPro, but not in other editing apps.

                                                  • 22. Re: Slow/choppy playback - cache buffering issue
                                                    Stu S Community Member

                                                    SteveHoeg wrote:

                                                     

                                                    Hey Stu - This is not an issue the Premiere Pro team is familliar with, and does not sound similar to any we have worked with Harm on. Can you provide any guidance to help us reproduce on our side.

                                                    Hi Steve,

                                                     

                                                    I haven't seen a response from you, so I don't know if you've watched my first upload, but I had some time this evening to shoot some more of this behavior.  Below is a link to multiple shots that suddley downshift, and go from AVCHD to bad, choppy webcam and then back to smooth play.  Please take the 3:44 to watch the video.  Premiere is useless with this behavior.

                                                     

                                                    https://vimeo.com/66871997

                                                    • 23. Re: Slow/choppy playback - cache buffering issue
                                                      Stu S Community Member

                                                      Steve, can you please let us know that you've viewed the videos I posted and what your response to them is?

                                                       

                                                      I'd like to know if and when this will be fixed in CS6.

                                                       

                                                      Thanks

                                                      • 24. Re: Slow/choppy playback - cache buffering issue
                                                        SteveHoeg Adobe Employee

                                                        Hey Stu - We haven't been able to reproduce this. Would you be willing to share some source files?

                                                        • 25. Re: Slow/choppy playback - cache buffering issue
                                                          Stu S Community Member

                                                          Absolutely.  Steven, if you PM me, I'll send them to you.

                                                          • 26. Re: Slow/choppy playback - cache buffering issue
                                                            ECBowen MVP

                                                            What platform are you all testing this on? If PC what model?

                                                             

                                                            Eric

                                                            ADK

                                                            • 27. Re: Slow/choppy playback - cache buffering issue
                                                              scottfredeman Community Member

                                                              I just fixed this issue by reducing the paused resolution to 1/4th or 1/2. This problem happens a lot when the paused resolution is set to Full.

                                                               

                                                              Scott

                                                              • 28. Re: Slow/choppy playback - cache buffering issue
                                                                DOTeditGuy

                                                                From reading this post, it seems like no one has found a definitive answer. I am not sure if I have either but I may have found a work around.

                                                                I have had clips work fine in Source (aka Preview) window , but once put on timeline Audio plays fine in RT (real time) but video lags. I’ve seen this with MP4s (H264), WMVs, and currently why I’m posting in DVCPROHD.

                                                                 

                                                                Possible work around

                                                                I just took a shot in the dark and made a new sequence, not a preset like I normally do, but by dragging the or a original clip to the “New Item” button. Then in that sequence deleted the clip and copy paste the lag timeline clips into the new sequence. And it works just fine now! 

                                                                 

                                                                Not sure if that helps anyone, but it worked for me. I’m going to keep editing now. Good Luck!

                                                                 

                                                                COMP SPECS:

                                                                HP Z800 12Core Processor

                                                                16GB RAM

                                                                Win7-64bit

                                                                X2 NVIDA Quadro FX3800

                                                                Pr CS6

                                                                AJA KLHi-Box

                                                                Editing off of EditShare Networked Server

                                                                • 29. Re: Slow/choppy playback - cache buffering issue
                                                                  KIPzookin

                                                                  I tried this as well and it seem to work well for now.  Would be great if Adobe took a look at the lag as it is difficult to edit/sync audio/video when you're not sure what the video is up to.

                                                                   

                                                                  Thanks to everyone participating in the feed and for the tips and suggestions.